Brake squeak then screech!
- Thread starter scam75
- Start date
Hilux
New member
There are loads of opinions regarding breaking in pads however I have done this for years on all types of cars including track based cars with hard pads.
The brakes are bedded in in a few minutes but do not apply the brakes when at a standstill and very hot as pad deposit will transfer to the disc. Leave brakes off until cooled down and you`re then good to go [
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scam75
Well-known member
Hi Guys
I have still not cured this problem. Since the last post I have had another set of new pagids on the front. Did not make a difference. I have tried new Porsche shims all round, no difference. I have tried those universal 3M sticky shims, no difference. I have tried with no shims and no difference in screech although braking is better with no shims in place but the noise is still there.
I still have the same issue that after a couple of miles the front brakes start to screech when coming to a halt.A few miles later they also start screeching under almost all normal braking conditions as they get hotter. I can get them to screech all the way from 100mph to standstill if I apply constant medium braking. Under hard braking there is no noise. I don't think I mentioned earlier in the thread that I have recently changed my front calipers to 993 ones which take the same pad and have the same size pistons as my original M030 fronts. We did have to get about 6mm machined off the calipers where the mounting bolts go through to make them fit properly onto the radial mounts, could this cause an issue? I can't see how as they were done in a machine shop with the old ones used as reference and look perfect. It squeaked with the old calipers, discs and pads too but not quite as bad.
I honestly feel like giving up and setting it on fire. I've renewed everything except the rear calipers and they were new about 3 years ago, tried different pads, tried grinding the edges off the pads, tried with and without shims, tried with and without copper grease. If I thought different branded pads (only tried pagids, 2 new sets) was the answer I would buy them but I'm just totally fed up trying things now. My wheels are off more than they're on!
Is it a case of just driving and hoping they settle down? If not, I'm beat!
What else can I do?
Depressed person with torturous noise coming from brakes.
I have still not cured this problem. Since the last post I have had another set of new pagids on the front. Did not make a difference. I have tried new Porsche shims all round, no difference. I have tried those universal 3M sticky shims, no difference. I have tried with no shims and no difference in screech although braking is better with no shims in place but the noise is still there.
I still have the same issue that after a couple of miles the front brakes start to screech when coming to a halt.A few miles later they also start screeching under almost all normal braking conditions as they get hotter. I can get them to screech all the way from 100mph to standstill if I apply constant medium braking. Under hard braking there is no noise. I don't think I mentioned earlier in the thread that I have recently changed my front calipers to 993 ones which take the same pad and have the same size pistons as my original M030 fronts. We did have to get about 6mm machined off the calipers where the mounting bolts go through to make them fit properly onto the radial mounts, could this cause an issue? I can't see how as they were done in a machine shop with the old ones used as reference and look perfect. It squeaked with the old calipers, discs and pads too but not quite as bad.
I honestly feel like giving up and setting it on fire. I've renewed everything except the rear calipers and they were new about 3 years ago, tried different pads, tried grinding the edges off the pads, tried with and without shims, tried with and without copper grease. If I thought different branded pads (only tried pagids, 2 new sets) was the answer I would buy them but I'm just totally fed up trying things now. My wheels are off more than they're on!
Is it a case of just driving and hoping they settle down? If not, I'm beat!
What else can I do?
Depressed person with torturous noise coming from brakes.
scam75
Well-known member
Cheers Dave
I did read your last post. Euro could only get me more Pagids when I went back.
I do believe you I just find it hard to believe the pads are to blame for so much squealing! They are OEM after all, they can't have squealed like that from new surely?
Anyway, will try Textars or something and see what happens.
Stuart
I did read your last post. Euro could only get me more Pagids when I went back.
I do believe you I just find it hard to believe the pads are to blame for so much squealing! They are OEM after all, they can't have squealed like that from new surely?
Anyway, will try Textars or something and see what happens.
Stuart
scam75
Well-known member
Latest update:
I sourced a set of TRW pads. Seemed to get a good write up with comments about them being particularly quiet, sounded good! They also came with the metal shims attached and I got change from £45. Bargain compared to shimless Pagids at £90 a go.
I have done about 50 miles so far with no noise whatsoever. Did plenty stop start stuff that was the biggest problem and so far so good.
Fingers crossed and cheers again Big Dave.
Stuart
I sourced a set of TRW pads. Seemed to get a good write up with comments about them being particularly quiet, sounded good! They also came with the metal shims attached and I got change from £45. Bargain compared to shimless Pagids at £90 a go.
I have done about 50 miles so far with no noise whatsoever. Did plenty stop start stuff that was the biggest problem and so far so good.
Fingers crossed and cheers again Big Dave.
Stuart
scam75
Well-known member
Right then, another days driving and all the noise is back exactly the same as with the pagids.
No noise when pads are cold, as they heat up I get a squeal coming to a halt, as they heat a bit more I get a squeal under normal braking conditions and when coming to a halt (but not under heavy braking), once they are extremely hot they are quiet again in all applications.
I now can't see how this can be pad related. The only thing I'm certain of is that the noise is not being caused by piston to pad action. It is most probably pad to disc noise or possibly pad edge to spring plate (there is some copper slip in there though)?
Is it possible that this noise will ease if I just stop messing about with the set up and let the pads bed in for a couple of thousand miles or is there something not right?
Any help greatly appreciated!
Stuart
No noise when pads are cold, as they heat up I get a squeal coming to a halt, as they heat a bit more I get a squeal under normal braking conditions and when coming to a halt (but not under heavy braking), once they are extremely hot they are quiet again in all applications.
I now can't see how this can be pad related. The only thing I'm certain of is that the noise is not being caused by piston to pad action. It is most probably pad to disc noise or possibly pad edge to spring plate (there is some copper slip in there though)?
Is it possible that this noise will ease if I just stop messing about with the set up and let the pads bed in for a couple of thousand miles or is there something not right?
Any help greatly appreciated!
Stuart
You could be right on letting everything settle in, my front right did the same, would make a noise at low speed. I fiddled about with the brake system a little while after and decided to do a brake test, just accellerated down a long, straight country lane and slammed on the brakes without activating the ABS or locking up. I might have done it a few times come to think of it..... The noise has gone now anyway! I've heard totally opposite ways to bed in brakes and came to the conclusion that no one really knows for sure []
Other than that, check everything is seated correctly, copperslip on the front and back of those shims..... Can't think of anything else. Some thing in there is vibrating, you need to find out what!
]Other than that, check everything is seated correctly, copperslip on the front and back of those shims..... Can't think of anything else. Some thing in there is vibrating, you need to find out what!
robwright
New member
For what it is worth mate I have pagids fitted all round. When I bought the car it had been used as a weekend shopper and polisher. The brakes were absolutely awful to the point of being embarrassing. Especially when coming to a low speed halt. Whilst in my tenure I have used the car everyday as my daily drver and can't say I have spared the horses!!! Now I hardly ever get a whimper out of my brakes. The occasional squeek but nothing that I even notice. Maybe giving them time to bed in properly is the answer. All the pads looked fairly new when I bought it.
dirtydirtyharry
New member
I have EXACTLY the same problem. I have greenstuff pads which I attributed the problem to but if this was the case then the squealing would be 24/7 (but it isnt) It will stop for a few days then start up again. Sometimes having the car jacked up for a bit to remove the wheels or whatever will result in a few 'quiet' days but as certain as night following day, it returns. Having the metal wire thingymajigs makes no difference. The only thing I havent tried is metal shims. Ive emptied a tube of copper slip onto the backs of the pads without success. It is a complete and utter PITA. []
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scam75
Well-known member
Latest update is no noise whatsoever for 2 days. After about 50 miles of silence with the TRW pads the noise came back as I stated when pads were warm. At that point I set about making the pads red hot and the noise stopped as I previously said.
However next morning no noise at any point and today no noise at any point.. So they haven't made a noise since I had them red hot. Interesting........... fingers crossed it stays that way.
NB. My friend came round with his 220 turbo the other night for new front pads. What he told me was grinding was actually squealing which had began and became a permanent feature. He does drive like a big girl though. So I put my new theory to the test and put his brakes through their paces in spirited fashion. Noise gone.
To be continued no doubt...............
Stuart
However next morning no noise at any point and today no noise at any point.. So they haven't made a noise since I had them red hot. Interesting........... fingers crossed it stays that way.
NB. My friend came round with his 220 turbo the other night for new front pads. What he told me was grinding was actually squealing which had began and became a permanent feature. He does drive like a big girl though. So I put my new theory to the test and put his brakes through their paces in spirited fashion. Noise gone.
To be continued no doubt...............
Stuart
OK... I don't know if this will help anyone, but in any of the cases, above, is there any chance there may be some minor "plate lift" in the calipers?
The reason I ask is... I have brakes that did squeal like a pig - it didn't particularly bother me, I could live with it - on my commuting snotter S2. I figured I go through a set of pads quick enough if that is the problem... anyway as a result of some other work, I noticed I had some very un-even pad wear... I already knew I had some plate lift, overcome by the usual grinding of the pads (I have some shiny new calipers to be fitted now, but they are going on with new pads and discs all together). The un-even wear suggested one side or the other was sticking... looking at the discs, it was the side which wasn't worn, and sure enough, the pad was a pig to get out of the caliper. I hadn't particularly noticed it in braking performance, but after shaving a little more off the pad, all of a sudden the sqealing has gone (and braking performance has I think improved, not surprisingly). So... Could the squealing be the discs protesting at being "bent" by un-even pad pressure?
Looking at the way my plates have lifted, more away from the discs, I would say this would be worst with new pads... which could explain it improving for either hard application (forcing the pads to move whether they want to or not, and being worn away if they can't return) or, "bedding in" - i.e., being worn away over time to a position where the plate lift isn't so bad closer to the disc.
Not sure about this at all, but, if all else fails, or you have a set of pads you are about to bin because of squealing, there is little to be lost from giving it a go.
I have not, incidentally, noticed any "rattling" from loose pads. I have only covered about 50 miles or so so far, but when I say mine did squeal, I mean they really squealed, every time!!
Hope this might help some-one,
Regards,
Tref.
The reason I ask is... I have brakes that did squeal like a pig - it didn't particularly bother me, I could live with it - on my commuting snotter S2. I figured I go through a set of pads quick enough if that is the problem... anyway as a result of some other work, I noticed I had some very un-even pad wear... I already knew I had some plate lift, overcome by the usual grinding of the pads (I have some shiny new calipers to be fitted now, but they are going on with new pads and discs all together). The un-even wear suggested one side or the other was sticking... looking at the discs, it was the side which wasn't worn, and sure enough, the pad was a pig to get out of the caliper. I hadn't particularly noticed it in braking performance, but after shaving a little more off the pad, all of a sudden the sqealing has gone (and braking performance has I think improved, not surprisingly). So... Could the squealing be the discs protesting at being "bent" by un-even pad pressure?
Looking at the way my plates have lifted, more away from the discs, I would say this would be worst with new pads... which could explain it improving for either hard application (forcing the pads to move whether they want to or not, and being worn away if they can't return) or, "bedding in" - i.e., being worn away over time to a position where the plate lift isn't so bad closer to the disc.
Not sure about this at all, but, if all else fails, or you have a set of pads you are about to bin because of squealing, there is little to be lost from giving it a go.
I have not, incidentally, noticed any "rattling" from loose pads. I have only covered about 50 miles or so so far, but when I say mine did squeal, I mean they really squealed, every time!!
Hope this might help some-one,
Regards,
Tref.
scam75
Well-known member
Hi Tref
I have no plate lift. The front calipers are very recently refurbished but what you say makes sense. I was beginning to think along the same lines as my calipers are off a 993 and had to have the mounting points machined down by about 6mm so they would fit. I was starting to suspect something was not quite level somewhere.
Anyway, I have been driving about for over a week now with next to no squeaking from the brakes. Ever since I roasted the TRW's and let them cool they have been perfect.
I have to conclude now that the noise was coming from the Pagid pads. It may have stopped or lessened over time but I was not prepared to put up with the god awful racket and hope for the best. Incidentally the TRW pads made the exact same noise at first however after that initial heat up to almost on fire and cool down cycle they have been quiet. Possibly they are softer pads and have bedded in much quicker? I don't know, in fact I don't care, I am just glad I am not being demented by brake squeal any more![]
Either way I won't buy Pagid's again.
Stuart
I have no plate lift. The front calipers are very recently refurbished but what you say makes sense. I was beginning to think along the same lines as my calipers are off a 993 and had to have the mounting points machined down by about 6mm so they would fit. I was starting to suspect something was not quite level somewhere.
Anyway, I have been driving about for over a week now with next to no squeaking from the brakes. Ever since I roasted the TRW's and let them cool they have been perfect.
I have to conclude now that the noise was coming from the Pagid pads. It may have stopped or lessened over time but I was not prepared to put up with the god awful racket and hope for the best. Incidentally the TRW pads made the exact same noise at first however after that initial heat up to almost on fire and cool down cycle they have been quiet. Possibly they are softer pads and have bedded in much quicker? I don't know, in fact I don't care, I am just glad I am not being demented by brake squeal any more![
]Either way I won't buy Pagid's again.
Stuart
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