2 months into ownership - time for some Qs

[Guest]

Hi folks,
I've had my lovely vesuvius (vesuvio??) 2S for a couple of months now and still have a front end full of flies and a big grin.

Couple of Qs now I'm getting used to it so see if I need worry, or if "they all do that, sir".

* Judder at 100+
Car & wheel feels dead stable until 100 passed then a fairly strong judder through the wheel, getting worse as I accelerate. It had new front disks & pads at the dealer before I picked it up and the front tyres are relatively new. What else can I investigate ?

* Diff noise ?
At < 30 I can hear a reasonably agricultural whine/rumble. Am assuming diff. Is this normal to some extent (I know it's difficult to judge without hearing it !)

* 30 is a pain. Boy does this car hate mooching along at 30. Used to big engined cars, so may be trying to keep it in too high a gear, but a 2k revs it hunts and shunts a bit.

* Warm starting. After a long, hot run, it doesn't particularly like starting - seems very sluggish to pick up. Left for an hour it starts beautifully again.

Thanks for any input folks. It's in for a service in a month at AutoStrasse so some idea of what's a concern and what isn't may be useful.

Neal

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

I don't think any of these are 'normal'. The 100+ judder could be wheel balance, but I would get them to check the suspension bushes as well. Diff whine is also unusual, but a sign of diff bearing wear or wear to the crownwheel and pinion. 30mph is a pain, but only because it seems so slow in a 911!! If the engine is hunting at that speed, it could be a dodgy MAF, idle control valve, or maybe an air leak. Hot start shouldn't be a problem either, but I don't have any experience to be able to offer any insights as to what is wrong.

 

[RichardLW]

Agree that the judder is likely to be wheel balance but that will be a bugger to get right if thats where it starts - could be a bent wheel.

My C4S is perfectly happy at 30 in 3rd/4th/5th and 6th and will pull happily in any of them from that speed - obviously with differing results though.

 

[Guest]

Thanks both. What I don't quite understand is why there are no symptoms of the judder at all below 95 ?

RE the 30mph problem - as I meet with more 993 owners through pcgb events, I'll see if I can grab a few passenger rides, or take people out in mine for a comparison point - it maybe that it just feels too slow

It was inspected by Mr Morgan before I bought, so I doubt it's anything major, hopefully me just over-analysing my new car.

When it's doing what it's built for - playing on a fast A road, in the twisties, or motorway slip roads, it feels perfect and very very at home.

 

[kbooker]

I was getting judder on a boxster I used to own that could only be felt at 90+, the cause turned out to be very slight damage to the sidewall on a rear tyre, it was so slight it was barely visable, changed the tyre and the car was judder free!

 

[Shane Hodges]

The hot starting issue is an interesting one - I get that occasionally too. Car will crank, think about starting, eventually fire, but struggle on tick over until a few seconds have passed.

Anyone any thoughts?

 

[Guest]

Hi Maurice

The tyres were fitted by a company used by Harbourcars for all their porkers so I would hope they know what they're doing. I'll live with it until new tyre time (perhaps a track day or two to shorten the interval ;-) then see if the noise & judder go away. The judder only comes in when I'm being naughty anyway.

The hot start is very strange. Under cool to warm conditions, the car fires almost the instant it starts to crank. Under warm to hot, it turns over a few times more, then fires. The last time (after coming back from Evesham, so 2 hrs non stop, then stopped long enough to load up with a big bag of fish n chips). I had to crank it a second time after it failed to catch the first. Once running, no probs.

Am planning to check the DME for the dreaded 944 number when I get a chance.

 

[Fred Hindle]

If the wheels were balanced up to the 95 mph speed then that is probably why you are not getting any judder.
Can you drive through the judder so that at higher speed the judder disappears? Does the judder get worse then you slow down to less than 100 mph (foot off accelerator completely and no braking). If the answer to both of these questions is 'yes' than I would get the wheels balanced again.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,

 

[AndyC]

Neal,

I had the 100mph vibration problem when I had a 996 C2 and lived in Germany. Germany meant that I couldn't get it out of the garage for 4 months because of the foot and half of snow in front of the door. It also meant that 100 mph plus was do-able practically every time I did drive it. Over the 4 months the tyres (Pirellis) went a little "square" as they sat on the same piece of rubber. The vibration got worse the faster you drove over 100 mph. A re-balance cured the problem. If you have just bought the car and it had sat in the dealers for some time before you came along maybe this could be your problem.

To confirm everyone else's comments my C2S trickles along fine at 30mph and doesn't have any diff' noise.

 

[Guest]

> If the wheels were balanced up to the 95 mph speed then that is probably why you are not getting any judder.
Ah, that makes sense. It keeps juddering, and getting worse up to 120something, ahem officer, but am not really willing to push harder on UK roads or with the judder.
It goes away as soon as I start dropping down again.

Rebalance might be a good option ( and relatively cheap) option to try.

 

[Guest]

Someone has recommended an ISV clean might clean the 30mph stuff up.

 

[Guest]

I asked the same question. He reckoned it sorted his.

I wonder if it'll help the starting as well.

Seems an easying job to take it off - prolly worth a look to see how dirty it is.

 

[mmylonas]

Wheel Judder - I can only offer help on this one. Bought a 993 Cab in October and had the same problems. Judder over about 90 all the way to whatever VMax I dared go to.

I posted almost exactly the same request as you on the forum and had much the same advice as you have had.
What fixed it was a relatively simple and cheap (£100 - £200, can't remember exactly) four wheel alignment session from a well known company in Datchet (can get the name from old invoice unless another member of the forum knows it off hand..) After that the car went/goes like a dream. The only problem being 9,000 miles in ten months....

Good luck,

Regards

Michael

 

[mmylonas]

Aha - Have found the reply I sent Maurice after I resolved the problem with the alignment. Gives yout hte company name and price. Trust this helps.

Michael


Maurice,

Car has had 4 wheel alignment service by Tognola and is now completely different and rock steady even in the wet. And at a very reasonable £240.

Michael

 

[Guest]

Thanks Michael, that sounds just the ticket.

 

[pike]

£240 seems a little steep for 4 wheel alignment. I had mine performed by Peter at Tognola about 4 weeks ago for £140 + VAT = £164.50. That was for a C4 though, perhaps it is more for the S variants.

Very pleased with the results though. The car feels a lot more stable.

Rob

 

[Porker993]

Shane - to answer your question about hot starting -

After switching off the engine I sometimes hear the sound of a big fan blowing cool air over the engine which I believe is designed to help prevent hot start fuel evaporation problems. It only cuts in at certain times at certain temperatures, and may not cut in at all for ten minutes or so after I have left the car. The operating parameters are described in the 993 workshop manual.

It may be worth checking to see if your fan is working OK.

 

[Sundeep]

ORIGINAL: pike

£240 seems a little steep for 4 wheel alignment. I had mine performed by Peter at Tognola about 4 weeks ago for £140 + VAT = £164.50. That was for a C4 though, perhaps it is more for the S variants.

Very pleased with the results though. The car feels a lot more stable.

Rob

240 notes !! did he have the mountie on each corner for balance [&:]

the restart problem is a classic evap problem......

that diff noise, sure it ain't the rear spolier extending up for air ?

balanced throttle on a 993, does that exist ? even cruise control would have a hard time !!

 

[Guest]

Update for the record.

Diff noise - definitely tyres - have now found lots of reports of the asymetrics causing owners to change diffs etc and realised it's tyres. Now part of "normal operating" noise so not noticed.

Judder - seems to be reducing and behaving itself - will monitor after next set of boots and get an alignment at some point

Warm starting - new 993 DME has sorted.

30mph now sorted apart from the original place where I noticed it which is uphill and actually 20 in traffic which also felt horrible when I did it on the bike the other day so it's a mind thing to do with the change of pace I think !

thanks all.

 

[Mark Elder]

ORIGINAL: nrayner

Warm starting - new 993 DME has sorted.

Hi,
Your warm start problem was after a long run, did you see any problems with starting after a short run also and, if so did DME help? Anyone else got experience on this?

I'm finding no problem starting from cold or hot but if I have to re-start (because I stall reversing the tight coner out of my drive), or because I stop to pick up petrol just a mile from house, I then have to wind the engine for ages and sometimes several times to start.