220 or 250 model?

[bennyboy]

Hi, I'm planning on buying a 944 Turbo really soon, but I really can't make up my mind which way to go - 220 or 250 model? Realistically, I should be able to get a 'good' (not concours but good overall condition) 220 model for about £4.5k I reckon. I would hope to get one with the optional LSD (is it code 220?) and for me it's a huge benefit that Fuchs rims will fit. Alternatively, I could get a good 250 model, with M030, for about £7K. My dilemma really is, will the 220 car, with Fuchs and LSD, and £2k - £3K spent on KW suspension, Level 1 engine upgrade and a few other bits, be a better car than a standard 250 model with M030?

I'd appreciate any opinions - many thanks.

Ben

 

[sawood12]

Ultimately it is more important to buy on condition regardless if it's a 220 or 250. On balance the 250 cars are more desirable with the LSD, bigger brakes, however bear in mind that in all probablility the suspension and LSD will be way past their best and be in need of a refurb. M030 sounds like a desirable thing to have but it is not as good as modern aftermarket suspension systems like KW for example. If you want to modify the car it doesn't really matter as you'll be upgrading most of the stuff on the 220 car that the 250 car has anyway (i.e. suspension and brakes), but if you are keeping standard or near standard then you're probably better off with the 250t.

As to whether a 220 car will be better with £2-£3k spent on it then hell yes. Give me a KW'd 220 over a M030'd 250 any day. What you loose on the straights you'll more than make up for through the bends. Not sure what the Level 1 kit will give you. For example my car started life out as a completely standard 220 and my first mod was a Dual Port Wastegate and manual boost controller and I set the boost to stock boost and at the Weltmiester rolling road (which is thought to be pessamistic compared with other dyno's) I got 240bhp. I doubt that there are many stock 250 turbos with their original wastegates making 240bhp let alone 250 bhp (apart from Paul Hilux's). I've now got the Stage 2 chips and upped the boost to 1 bar so I guestimate i'm probably making somewhere in the region of 260 - 270bhp. At that level the car feels very fast in the first half of the rev range but I can feel the power tail off at the upper rev range due to the smaller turbo fitted to the 220t cars that bleeds boost pressure higher in the rev range. I'm sure if I had a K26/8 turbo off a 250t car i'd have a bit more umph at the upper reaches of the rev range.

 

[Suffolk944]

Would certainly concour with what Scott says - Buy on condition rather than 220 vs 250 or age for that matter. Certainly don't dismiss the 220's if you are planning to do some tweaking - am very happy with mine and have the same engine mod as Scott. Am currently summoning both finance and determination to get the KW suspension plus some more power and better brakes [8D].

Plus 220's are a bit lighter...

If you are planning to keep it stock then a 250 would have the edge for sure. If not then the money you save buying a 220 can be put to very good use []

 

[edh]

How much lighter are the early cars? - and how do they manage it?

 

[sawood12]

I've also heard that but am not sure where the weight saving is. I've read the gearboxes with oil coolers are 15kg's heavier and the only other major difference between them that I can think of is the early turbos had forged con rods instead of cast ones which would provide you with some weight savings but it's not that significant.

 

[Suffolk944]

Would the LSD and ABS of the later cars add weight ?

 

[944Turbo]

and the bigger brake discs, sports seats (is leather heavier than cloth?) 10 speaker stereo in later cars, my car has a late style diagnostics plug with associated wiring, alarm and immoboliser.

 

[sawood12]

Ah well there is a distinction to be made here. My car is a 220 car with smaller brakes full leather, no LSD/oil cooler. I'm not sure which cars they are referring to. It must be the pre-abs cars rather than the 220 turbo's vs. 250 turbo's.

 

[924nutter]

Or you could buy this for £4400

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Porsche-944-TURBO-with-OVER-300-BHP_W0QQitemZ160143479850QQihZ006QQcategoryZ9860QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[poprock]

Very impressive! A true "˜stealth speedster'. It looks a bit ropey, but will go like hell!

 

[Suffolk944]

Is certainly intriguing at that price, though not sure I could live with that colour interior....

 

[edh]

you'd have to be a big fan of burgundy though []

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Suffolk944

Is certainly intriguing at that price, though not sure I could live with that colour interior....

It's one of those colours that looks far less offensive in the flesh and looks good with the exterior colour. If it's a good car who gives a damn about what colour it is (assuming it isn't red or silver rose pink) []

 

[Suffolk944]

Thats true enough Mr Sims - and I guess the colour itself isn't so bad when compared with some []

But there is just a hell of alot of it, I think the Burgundy steering wheel is maybe a tad too far with the colour coding !

 

[bennyboy]

Thanks for the advice guys. The weigth issue is an interesting one because I think I'd like to do some hillclims/sprints in it, so that would obviously help. Can anybody recommend a roll-cage supplier/fitter? I was also hoping somebody could confirm whether or not the LSD was available as an option on the 220 cars? I'm sure I've seen some sold like this but I suppose it could have been from a later spec car?

Thanks again, Ben.

 

[333pg333]

I would seriously check out that car that is advertised here. It sounds almost too good to be true. The best thing about it is that someone else has spent plenty on it and you can pick it up for very little. Don't worry about the colour and you can always change to more suitable seats in another colour which you will definitely need to if you want to race it. I guess it could be full of rust, but if it isn't I think you'd be mad not to consider it. As the other guys have said, you will change many things on either of the 220 or 250 cars anyway and it sounds like someone has spent their hard earned on quite a few of those things already for you to pick up for nix. If it's been in a crash you would want to check out for chassis damage too just to be sure.

 

[Fen]

I can't believe that nobody mentioned the brakes yet - the single biggest reason I wouldn't start with a 220 car as a project is that it will cost £££ and hassle to get decent brakes on it. By contrast the 250 has bigger brakes already and you can just bolt even bigger ones up if you want to go further. It's only a week since we've seen RUMS944 struggling to get bigger brakes mated to his early 220 car.

Apart from the brakes you also get your LSD, bigger turbo, stronger 1st and 2nd gears, gearbox oil cooler, thicker drive shafts, ARBs etc.

I agree you should buy on condition, but I don't necessarily agree that a good 220 can be had for £4.5k and an equivalently good 250 will be £7k - there isn't £2,500 in price difference between them IMO and the difference in spec is worth the small premium. OK the early 220 might be a bot lighter, but if you're interested in weight so much you'd delete worthwile performance kit to go light then buy a Lux. All the alarm and 10 speaker stereo tat can be taken out and some of it will sell on eBay to offset the extra you paid.

Tired M030 is worth nothing compared with tired Boge suspension and I wouldn't pay a premium for a car with rebuilt M030 as it isn't all that as has been said.

I used to know this car http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/209525.htm and apparently (I know someone who looked at it) it has some issues that keep the price down, but they are cosmetic in the main and it's available for less than the sticker price yet it has the 250 spec plus, level 2 kit already and Janspeed exhaust (full system, not cat back as the owner seems to believe) etc. already fitted. I'd need to see how the sills look to wholeheartedly recommend it, but it looks like a decent track prospect to me.

 

[Guest]

Just a heads up, selling my 250 Turbo at the moment, see the for sale forum.