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3.1ltr SC

bones

New member
I was contacted by a member last week with the details of his very rare SC as he thought it might be of interest. Some of you will know that Porsche produce 'special' cars, from time to time, odd engine configurations turn up which can't be easily explained without getting the details from the original owner or Porsche A.G. However this car comes with it's log book showing the engine size, power in Kw, it's date of build etc.
The car I'm speaking of is the 3.1ltr SC, Gwyn Richardson's Petrol Blue (I think) 1980 sport Targa has the correct chassis and engine nos. for that batch of cars and was built around 15 Jan '80 and first registered on 25 Jan '80, the capacity is 3083cc and it develops 154Kw@5800rpm, this equates to around 210bhp. If it left the factory (Weissach) with that amount on the dyno you can bet your life soon afterwards it was developing 5-10 more. The car has travelled 300,000KM and is a left-hooker. The car will be sensationally quick as Gwen says even though the SC is not as light as previous 911s it is certainly lighter than the 911s that followed.
The SCRS was the fastest accelerating Porsche 911 bar none up until the early '90s but as the SC is not very well loved people seem to disregard that ultra rare of all SCs. (It was stripped out in 'true' early RS style a homologation special for the 954 rally car)
There about 100 of these 'Weissach specials' not the same as the Weissach Special Edition. SC customers collecting their cars could elect to take it straight to Weissach and have the 3.3 Turbo barrels and pistons fitted but as the stroke was different that's how the cc is created. As far as I know no other mod's were needed but Gwyn has mentioned since having a different injection fuel distributor fitted the car is peaky aroung 4,000 rpm where before it was smooth throughout the rev range, could it be that the 3.1 SC has a different fuel distributor, it might make sense. The car was born because some customers complained about the lack of bhp in their latest 911 especially when the previous 3.0 Carrera had 20bhp more. With hindsight it is clear that Fuhrmann deliberately detuned the SC so it couldn't compete with the new 'flagship' 928 but in reality if progress had been as usual with a 911 launch the 911SC would have probably rolled out of the factory with 210-220 bhp. So in response to the demand for more power if you were in the right place at the right time you could have a 3.1SC with more go than the stock SC.
One strange thing about Gwyn's car is that the cc is given as 3083cc yet other specs for this car put the cc at 3122cc near to the 3.2s 3163cc (indeed the SC and Carrera 3.2 share the same 95mm Nikasil barrels). If you want to read a little more about these rare SCs have a look at this site.





http://users.compaqnet.be/skyimages/porsche2/p911/SC/911sc31.html




C99163DD2C8A4C94A8FD2182816C36F9.jpg
 
with regards to the fuel distributor it would be worth checking to see if there is any difference between early (180hp) and late (204hp) part no's. One would assume the car should be fitted with the later part if one exists. Failing that the 3.0l Carrera distributor may be a better option (assuming that's not the same part no too).
 
I was thinking along those lines too Laurence but I think the difference may well be that the original distributor was Turbo one. Gwyn's car is an 80 model so it started life as a 188bhp engine with an 8.6:1 compression ratio. Ihave it on good authority that the 180 SC regularly produced over 185 bhp on the Stuttgart dyno and the 188bhp figures were a way of satisfying demands for correct power figures from bureaucrats. That leaves the question why tweak the engine from a compression ratio of 8.5:1 to 8.6:1?
 
hi there i now own this car
what do think it could be worth as i am trying to get an agreed value for insurance

jon
 
Congratulations on your purchase; I just fell off my chair: this is a fantastic price and well done to you! I assume someone non suspecting was selling you "just" a 1980 model year targa.
I wasnt aware that the 3.1 litre engine was provided in a targa shell - rather unusual. Considering that Porsche provided 1 LHD 3.2 litre clubsport in targa form for Axel Springer in Germany, I wonder whether your car is perhaps having a similar link.......I am a big fan of Targa's but don't hold it against me. [;)]

Please provide us with a few more details- There is indeed very little known of these beasts and it would be great if PCGB could provide a once-and-for-all reference point for 3.1 SC owners worldwide regarding modifications from stock
Peter (bones) could you coordinate perhaps more info or a summary on this as you are a technical wizz?
This discussion for example came up on the US websites etc etc - here's a threat http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=515.

If and when this car *could* be the only known 3.1 targa I think it might be marginally worth more then you paid [;)]


congrats once again and best regards,


bert
 
Hi Bert I've written about these cars before but I can't find the info at the moment. Basically there were about a hundred all customer specified, they produced 210bhp and were for prefered customers who wanted a little more performance as Porsche seriously detuned the first SCs to 180bhp when they could easily have made much more and do when tweaked.
 
I believe the early fuel distributer ran leaner than the later one fitted to the 204bhp model. Apparently the later distributer runs slightly richer to minimise the chance of detonation with the higher compression 9.8:1 pistons particularly at higher RPM.

So it seems if you want a marginal improvement in performance fit the early distributer to a later car?
 
ORIGINAL: bones
Hi Bert I've written about these cars before but I can't find the info at the moment.

Hi Peter, you have written quite a bit over on the pelican parts forum. If you follow this link, (also posted over at Impactbumpers.com) you'll see pictures.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=281573
However, how to determine values because, just as with the Ruf, it is a bespoke car, meaning not available off the production line.
Best regards,

Bert
 
Bones,
Good thread, very interesting read.
In my Adrian Streather 911SC book all the engines for the complete range are specified.
I thought the lads might be interested in the engine spec.
type 930/03 3.1 ltr upgrade kit specification. (1978 and 1979)
bore mm 97.0
stroke mm 70.4
displacement cc 3122
compression ratio 9.5:1
horsepower kw/hp 154/210 @5800
torque nm/lbft @ rpm 280/206 @4700
Max rpm 7000

Cheers
John
 
he he thx for the interest and info guys

i am gonna fill out the valuation form from the members bit and send it to porscheclub to try and get a higher value on my insurance.

i originally spoke to one of the admin ladies at porsche club who told me to send an email to the porschemotorsport adress which i have done twice but this seems to be ignored! this steve kevlin guy likes to keep a low profile...

another point to mention is that i asked peter morgan from 911 and porsche world to value my car and he said he couldnt as it was too unique!!! but he did mention that i should get a certficate of authenticity how do i get one of these?
i am also gonna ask josh sadler at autofarm to see if he will do me a valuation too as i reckon it would be good to get a second opinion and i think he might be bit quicker too. spring is fast approaching and I WANT TO DRIVE THE CAR!

please let me know what extra details everyone would like?

as a brief summary i bought this car off gwynn (original owner in thread) in feb 2005
it has done 200,000 miles but has had 2 new front wings, gearbox , engine rebuild, full respray etc etc
since i bought it i have had it dintroled to death , new heat exchangers, new alternator and generally looked after it

this year i will be replacing the airbox as my local specialist has said that it is cracking

other stuff i want to do is get the small tears in the seat seams sown up replace the headlights as the silver bit inside is a bit rusty i would also love to get my fuchs refurbed
i feel this car s gonna be my life's work!

gwynne used it everyday from 1985 and maintained it well the service history must be close to 35K by now i gave up counting!

as this is the only 911 i have ever driven i cant really compare it to other cars but all i do know is MY GOD ITS FAST
it's fast up to 5000 revs and then after that just goes mental!

my local specialist mark twigg in peterborough reckons it kicks out 250bhp could this be possible on a rebuilt engine?
he has been working on it for over 15 years and rebuilt the engine too
he reckons it will do 0-60 in 5 secs (im not sure i have the driving skill to do that though)

so there u go looks like i got lucky with my first porsche buy all credit to 911 and porsche world which was where i spotted the car!

ta

jon
 
I doubt with basic mods the engine has it is putting out 250bhp, are you sure you heard him correctly. Why don't you put us all out of our misery and get it dyno tested? To achieve 0-60- in 5 secs I estimate it would have to weigh less than a 1000kg (approx) and have 220bhp (approx). The weight is the crucial factor here because such little engine modification won't produce 250bhp.
The stock car weighs 1160kg if my memory serves me correctly.
 
keep an eye out on the www.impactbumpers.com forum as well as this forum. Various people organise dyno runs and there are whole bibles written about individual differences in dyno outputs etc etc. Ah there is one coming up on St Patricks day with the IB forum people http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2046&hl=dyno+run so the silverstone one is pretty good at £45 per car.

Now, my engine is blueprinted and had a bottom end rebuild. Its pretty fast but limited by the gearing.

picture taken on a closed circuit over in Europe
woops.jpg


A proper rebuild should get about 15% over the stock value (considering that "stock" is conservative at Porsche) so 225 to 230 should be feasable. Moreover, if you start backdating your heater etc you might free up some ponies.

Regarding valuations: you need to download the valuation form from www.porscheclubgb.com and click on the black button stating "members". A blue bar with various options appears and you can click "car valuation". Fill the form in, provide 6 quality pictures and copies of EVERYTHING (even if it means renting a photocopier for those 35k bills), inclusive of perhaps a letter from the SC Register Secretary summarising what we have said. Josh Sadler can also provide additional info but as long as it comes from PCGB it should be very well received. Premium *might* go up though but marginally.

It will take a few weeks. Finally, regarding the build sheet, write to Porsche Cars GB customer services, pay them £75, and make sure you ask for the options list page as well as they usually forget it! A few weeks later it all arrives. Finally, write to the DVLA, pay £5 and show proof of ownership and state that you are recreating the full UK history of the vehicle and usually you get a copy of the old V5 forms etc.

Best of luck. Bones, could we create a photo gallery similar to what happened on the Pelican parts forum? Specifically for the 3,1 where it differs from the regular SC?

Best regards,


Bert

 
I don't know how to create a photo gallery but it must be easy, also John if you are interested in moderating this forum I can step aside because I don't have time to spend on the forum anymore. I think the SC Register Secretary should be told too, that's if there still is one, nobody writes anything about SCs for the club mag' anymore, I think it's a shame and I wish I had more time to devote to the little beauties. Contact Admin and go from there.
 
err i would have to think about that!

yeh im not sure about the sc register it not covered in porsche post

there was one in my membership pack william kimberley email 911sc@porscheclubgb.com

i will send a mail following your advice thx!

sc's do seem to be looked over...
in the states they love em.
on rennlist they seem to have a rep for being very robust and i guess a bit easier to work on assuming
more sophisticated electronics started to come in with 3.2? (i am not a technical person i just
read a lot about porsches)

 
Ah! sorry my post was meant for John or Bert, I don't think you have been a club member long enough for the powers that be to let you loose on the forum. [:D] You never know though.
 

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