andrew symms
New member
my exhaust is starting to blow in several places, can anyone offer advise on stainless systems and where is best to get them from??
Regards
Andrew
Regards
Andrew
3.2 replacement exhaust
- Thread starter andrew symms
- Start date
Andrew....I guess alot of people will have their say on this.....but for my two pennies:
Hayward & Scott in Basildon...sales@haywardandscott.co.uk
Hayward & Scott in Basildon...sales@haywardandscott.co.uk
Greetings
As Alan has already mentioned, Hayward&Scott.! My '85 coupe had one on when I got the car last Nov. I drove around without a stereo for nearly four months, it sounded great! [
]If I ever got another 911 that was standard I would budget for another one of their systems with out any doubt. Nearly £2k tho'.
"Porsche&911" world ran an article on that company "some" months ago, I'm sure if you speak to H&S the'll tell you when the article appeared. If not come back to me and I'll have a dig round and find my copy of the issue and get you a photocopy.
Trust me (I've heard that before)[]
Good luck
Alex Kovac (alias Signor)
As Alan has already mentioned, Hayward&Scott.! My '85 coupe had one on when I got the car last Nov. I drove around without a stereo for nearly four months, it sounded great! [
]If I ever got another 911 that was standard I would budget for another one of their systems with out any doubt. Nearly £2k tho'. "Porsche&911" world ran an article on that company "some" months ago, I'm sure if you speak to H&S the'll tell you when the article appeared. If not come back to me and I'll have a dig round and find my copy of the issue and get you a photocopy.
Trust me (I've heard that before)[
]Good luck
Alex Kovac (alias Signor)
Guest
New member
The H&S system is an equal length header system without the crossover arrangement that the non-equal length 3.2 system has. It is conceptually the same as the pre-74 911 exhaust which in turn is the same as the SSI reproduction of the pre-74 exhaust.
The pros and cons of the various exhaust arrangements are much debated. The std system works quite well considering its design is thoeretically less than ideal. Back to back dyno tests have shown that there are few hp left on the table - especially when an aftermarket chip is added. The standard system can be tuned for sound by choosing a "sport" single out muffler or a twin-out muffler. However, beware that low restriction rear mufflers tend to reduce midrange torque for *perhaps* a tiny top end gain. They almost certainly require a complementary chip to regain the lost midrange. The std pre-muffler cannot be bettered hp/torque when the std configuration is retained. So-called sport pre-mufflers or cup-pipes offer no benefit.
The SSI/pre-74 system does not have a pre-muffler and has only a rear muffler (two-in and one/two-out configuration). Because there is little length in which to fit the exhaust and design in muffling, it is noisy - not a bad thing - and also has a different sound. The standard 3.2 cams do not allow you to take full advantage of an equal length header system so hp gains are minimal and will require an appropriate chip. The SSI are exceptionally good quality and you can land them in the UK for under £800 for the pair with the weak USD. Elephant Racing can source them and Pelican have them on their website for example. Add a sport stainless muffler and you have all the parts for about £1150.
The only advantage that H&S offer over SSI is that they use a larger diameter pipe for the extractors - otherwise they are grossly overpriced. The SSIs are theoretically too small for 3.2s but its swings and roundabouts. The smaller diameter offers a midrange torque boost and the seems to take little away from the top end. John Daniels has time and again delayed production of bigger SSIs for 3.2/3.6 motors on the basis that his product is already optimal for road use on these engines. I agree and I have just bought a set !
There are also pre-74 pattern Dansk heat exchangers. These are by reputation not in the same league as the real SSIs and apparently have some mild steel parts under the stainless. Be warned.
A picture of an SSI system is below.
The pros and cons of the various exhaust arrangements are much debated. The std system works quite well considering its design is thoeretically less than ideal. Back to back dyno tests have shown that there are few hp left on the table - especially when an aftermarket chip is added. The standard system can be tuned for sound by choosing a "sport" single out muffler or a twin-out muffler. However, beware that low restriction rear mufflers tend to reduce midrange torque for *perhaps* a tiny top end gain. They almost certainly require a complementary chip to regain the lost midrange. The std pre-muffler cannot be bettered hp/torque when the std configuration is retained. So-called sport pre-mufflers or cup-pipes offer no benefit.
The SSI/pre-74 system does not have a pre-muffler and has only a rear muffler (two-in and one/two-out configuration). Because there is little length in which to fit the exhaust and design in muffling, it is noisy - not a bad thing - and also has a different sound. The standard 3.2 cams do not allow you to take full advantage of an equal length header system so hp gains are minimal and will require an appropriate chip. The SSI are exceptionally good quality and you can land them in the UK for under £800 for the pair with the weak USD. Elephant Racing can source them and Pelican have them on their website for example. Add a sport stainless muffler and you have all the parts for about £1150.
The only advantage that H&S offer over SSI is that they use a larger diameter pipe for the extractors - otherwise they are grossly overpriced. The SSIs are theoretically too small for 3.2s but its swings and roundabouts. The smaller diameter offers a midrange torque boost and the seems to take little away from the top end. John Daniels has time and again delayed production of bigger SSIs for 3.2/3.6 motors on the basis that his product is already optimal for road use on these engines. I agree and I have just bought a set !
There are also pre-74 pattern Dansk heat exchangers. These are by reputation not in the same league as the real SSIs and apparently have some mild steel parts under the stainless. Be warned.
A picture of an SSI system is below.
Guest
New member
This is the premuffler part of the std system showing on the bottom left of the picture, the pipe from the RHS heat exchanger crossing over to meet the pipe from the LHS heat exchanger as they enter the pre-muffler. From there, the exhaust exits the premuffler before entering the rear muffler on the RHS of the picture. Picture is taken from the LH rear wheelwell.
I will try to find a full equal length header system as well.
I will try to find a full equal length header system as well.
Guest
New member
Hi Richard
What do you think of the sports outlet pipe being offered by some companies which connects directly to the presilencer and eliminates the rear silencer box completely? surely the noise from this setup must be bordering on illegal? Also going off your "larger bore,less mid range" advice would this further aggravate the situation?
Questions,questions you must think but this area as I'm sure you'll agree is the proverbial "minefield".
Ian
What do you think of the sports outlet pipe being offered by some companies which connects directly to the presilencer and eliminates the rear silencer box completely? surely the noise from this setup must be bordering on illegal? Also going off your "larger bore,less mid range" advice would this further aggravate the situation?
Questions,questions you must think but this area as I'm sure you'll agree is the proverbial "minefield".
Ian
plhorner
Moderator
I hope to be able to comment on the SSI route very shortly! Mine's been in having these fitted for what seems like an eternity, we've actually had some quality issues with one of the headers and its had to go back to SSI in the US to be rectified One of the flanges was welded out of true....apparently very rare!
The only real problem with the SSI set-up is the heating system, the blower inlets are different so you either ditch it or back date the heating. Oh, and don't forget you'll also need to change the oil ines around the engine to the earlier design.
HTH
The only real problem with the SSI set-up is the heating system, the blower inlets are different so you either ditch it or back date the heating. Oh, and don't forget you'll also need to change the oil ines around the engine to the earlier design.
HTH
Guest
New member
Phil,
Does your mechanic have all the pieces to backdate? I have been poking around trying to collect all the pieces and have found it quite difficult. I do however have a list of everything you need. More recently I just asked JAZ if they had them and sure enough they have "loads of old tin" and ducts so problem solved.
Looking forward to hearing how your SSIs work out. What muffler will you use?
RB
Does your mechanic have all the pieces to backdate? I have been poking around trying to collect all the pieces and have found it quite difficult. I do however have a list of everything you need. More recently I just asked JAZ if they had them and sure enough they have "loads of old tin" and ducts so problem solved.
Looking forward to hearing how your SSIs work out. What muffler will you use?
RB
plhorner
Moderator
Richard,
I've only got one side to do the back date so far, were JAZ asking big money for the tinware? I'll keep you posted on the rest of it, to be perfectly honest I'm really loosing patience over the whole situation. After nearly 3 months it feels like I'm permanently banging my head aginst a brick wall with the garage. Regarding the box, to be honest I'm not sure, I don't want anything too noisy just a pure and crisp sound. The garage said "they knew the perfect solution", I'll ask them tomorrow about it.
Cheers for now,
Jacob
New member
Ian,
I recently bought one of these (see post earlier on in the thread) and there are a few things I would like to share with you
1.it is rediculously loud
2.it will scare the s**t out of small children, old folk and animals
3.sounds just like a race car
4.easy to put on and take off by yourself
5.your neighbours will hate you
6.your wife won't ride with you again
7.Great fun, big smiles
If your local and you want a listen - gives me an excuse to put it on again
If you want to buy one - make me an offer and I may sell
Jacob
New member
I bought it from design 911 for about £75 (including VAT and Postage). They don't actually state if it is S/S and I would guess that it is, but it is only a guess.
It will last forever because
a.you won't keep it on all the time []
b.you drive your audi in the wet []
Your more than welcome to have a listen anytime
BTW if you want to buy it, you can have it for £40
It will last forever because
a.you won't keep it on all the time [
]b.you drive your audi in the wet [
]Your more than welcome to have a listen anytime
BTW if you want to buy it, you can have it for £40
Guest
New member
Hi Jacob
Sounds like a fair price(only £10 more than the parking fine I picked up today,thought sundays were free!!!)Are you far from King's Lynn or shall we arrange p&p and let postie do the work?
Should be a good counter deterrant to my neighbours dogs!
Let me know the total cost of postage Jacob so I can forward a cheque to you which you can allow to clear first ,if you so wish.
Ian
(p.s did you notice any loss of mid range torque or had the noise addled your brains by this stage?)
Sounds like a fair price(only £10 more than the parking fine I picked up today,thought sundays were free!!!)Are you far from King's Lynn or shall we arrange p&p and let postie do the work?
Should be a good counter deterrant to my neighbours dogs!
Let me know the total cost of postage Jacob so I can forward a cheque to you which you can allow to clear first ,if you so wish.
Ian
(p.s did you notice any loss of mid range torque or had the noise addled your brains by this stage?)
Guest
New member
I'm hoping to get along to the Spring National Porsche Show at Stoneleigh Park on the 24th of this month (sunday),are you likely to be attending this event?
My mobile is 07786 554985 if you are going just so we could locate each other there.If this is doesn't sound likely to come about then post it will need to be.
Ian
My mobile is 07786 554985 if you are going just so we could locate each other there.If this is doesn't sound likely to come about then post it will need to be.
Ian
Guest
New member
It's just below Coventry,probably a 1 1/2 hr run from Pontefract straight down the A1(m).It's at the N.A.C (national agricultural centre) sounds like it should be ok,£6 if tickets ordered in advance (up to 14th April) or £8 on the day.Usual stuff;concours,classic,race & modded porsches plus trade stands and autojumble.
Ian
Ian
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