3.8 RS motor/ wing/ front splitters

DSCBoy · Mar 27, 2011

As part of the longer term project of possibly putting the Infineon back to what she was originally, I'm starting on the parts gathering process.

Now I've pinned down the rear wing to an original (ludicrous money from Freisinger) or a highly recommended copy from the US (less than 25% of price.
I have an offer of some NOS front splitters... (again Freisinger at silly money) so am looking for other options..
I've sourced an alloy bonnet.

So it comes down to the engine. To be honest, I'm not even sure of the exact spec I'm looking for... I know all RS 3.8's were fitted with M64/04 motors and if I could find one of these with a serial number between 62P 85001-62P 85662 then I'd be very happy.

But same serial numbers and type numbers cover the RSR motors as well, and given there was a 25bhp difference quoted between the two I'm sure the RS 3.8 and RSR didn't have identical units?

Does anyone know the spec differences?

And finally, anyone seen one for sale? Any idea how many years holidays I'm going to have to cancel to afford one?

Cheers
Rick

carreraboy · Mar 28, 2011

Rick ... 3.8RSR engine up to 375BHP depending on level of factory preparation, sounds an expensive project, if yu are selling the current engine with the Turbos etc I would be pleased to have it off you, might pay for one of your holidays!

Ben Savill · Mar 28, 2011

You need to be careful when discussing outputs of the RSR motor as they were supplied from the factory with a selection of intake restrictors to suit the various series which the car was homologated to run in.

I believe there were four restrictors supplied - I haven't got them unfortunately. This is why there is an oft quoted output range of 325-375.
I don't know much about the internals at all but in speaking to someone who was stripping down their RSR motor, he commented upon the number of shared parts with the "standard" 3.8 motor. The cams are certainly different.

Somebody with more / correct knowledge will be along shortly............. calling Howells or McLean!!

Melv · Mar 28, 2011

Upietz Porsche Sport '93 quotes 325bhp @ 6900rpm (ADAC Cup GT Regulations*) for the 3.8 RSR.....that's not much more than my 964 Cup!![

]

It does go on to state "...upto 350bhp"

*GT Cup Division 1 under a power/weight formula prescribing 4kg per HP....

carreraboy · Mar 28, 2011

The 375BHP had a defined engine life in that state of tune think it was 40hours before rebuild, I read this was the tune of the debut Spa 24 Hour winning car ....... Just as well I suppose the race was black flagged early.

Surely the 993 Cup engine is similar, non varioslip, can't be many changes.

ChrisW · Mar 28, 2011

The X51 pack for the 993 was the 964 3.8 engine.

It had 285 bhp but was very torquey --- no Varioram.

There are some 3.8 993's around ... I had one which I sold when I bought my 964RS ...

Narrow bodied, LHD --- PS9's and --- a sunroof !!

I wonder if I have the engine number ??

Nope -- vin number --- and a pic of the engine only ...

paul howells · Mar 28, 2011

Are you sure about the type number being the same,usually they are not.The 993 cup and rsr have different type numbers.The rsr had higher lift cams,along with the various size intakes you also had a accompanying /matching ecu for the inlet /restrictor size.Also fairly sure the pistons were higher compression and clearance for valve lift etc
I am using 964rsr cams in my early racer,its not all bhp mel,the torque would sort your engine out!
Freisinger would confirm most details,he did have some motors which would give you a ball park fig on price.He is expensive but usually has what you require!If its correct numbers i would have thought north of 30k.
I have been trying for 4 years to buy a 964rsr engine that was used for qualifying at lemans a few years ago,but he is still not letting it go sadly.

DSCBoy · Mar 29, 2011

Jurgens bible states that the 2 engines were same tyoe and series of numbers, quotes identical figures for both EXCEPT power (325 @6900 vs 300 @ 6500) and compression (11.4:1 for the RSR, 11.0:1 for RS 3.8).

As noted, lots more torque than a cup car (RS 3.8 36.0/5250 while Cup 31.4/5000)

Chris, you sure that the X51 engine for the 993 was the same??? No suggestion of that in Jurgens book (in fact no mention of the X-pack motor at all)... it might be possible though as the 993 RS motor is identical bore/stroke, just fractionally higher compression (11.3:1) and torque 36.2/6500.

So sounds like a 993 RS or 3.8 motor would do the trick... although still keen on originality where possible...

Des, will entertain bids on the bi-turbo motor at the time... but it depends... if I have to buy a car to get the right motor for mine, I'll probably switch it in, strip it out and terrorise a few tracks with it.

Quick thought? Any differences between rear wings on the RSR and the RS 3.8 anyone is aware of?

Cheers
Rick

Melv · Mar 29, 2011

Don't worry Paul -I know about torque!![

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carreraboy · Mar 29, 2011

ORIGINAL: paul howells

Are you sure about the type number being the same,usually they are not.The 993 cup and rsr have different type numbers.The rsr had higher lift cams,along with the various size intakes you also had a accompanying /matching ecu for the inlet /restrictor size.Also fairly sure the pistons were higher compression and clearance for valve lift etc
I am using 964rsr cams in my early racer,its not all bhp mel,the torque would sort your engine out!
Freisinger would confirm most details,he did have some motors which would give you a ball park fig on price.He is expensive but usually has what you require!If its correct numbers i would have thought north of 30k.
I have been trying for 4 years to buy a 964rsr engine that was used for qualifying at lemans a few years ago,but he is still not letting it go sadly.

I thought the 964RSR Le Mans Spec car had the earlier 1965 2.0S bonnet release mechanism and Panzermera rear parking sensors, all be it in development[

]

jason · Mar 30, 2011

You can still get the RSR rear wing from Porsche.

They are really cheap[

]

But then if you're looking for an original engine and the other parts then you best have very deep pockets anyway...

DSCBoy · Mar 30, 2011

Woke up in a cold sweat last night about giving up 33% of the power and about 50% of the torque... in return for spending large amounts of money.

That and picking up a large bill for the gearbox in the 350Z that we lunched at Silverstone on Saturday have not helped my determination with this project...

Any clue what Porsche are asking Jason? Freisinger wants Euro 4k for an original, but with most of his stuff asking 4k means he'll take Euro 2500 if u wave cash at him.

jason · Mar 30, 2011

I have a quote of £2640 + Vat but its not detailed. It does sound about what I remember it as though.

Lots of places sell what are considered 'rare' parts at big money and yet are still available new from porsche....

It amazes me what people will pay for second hand 9x15 fuchs yet Porsche made a whole new batch of them not long ago...

If you enquire see if you can get a discount for two[

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jason · Mar 30, 2011

PS I think your mad.

Are you trying to recreate it so that you can sell it hopefully at a profit? If you are do your sums closely on what its all going to cost to do an accurate rebuild and then come up with a realistic sale price (not a Tom non-sale value) for a non-matching 'street car' (ie no race provenance and known shell, rebuild history, changes made etc.

TBH I think you will make as much over time just leaving it the way it is and enjoying it for what it is - it has an interesting story all ready, and will be a lot of headaches less!

Talat · Mar 30, 2011

To be fair to Freisinger - I recently bought a brand new RS steering rack off them and it worked out a lot cheaper than buying from an OPC (even with the PCGB discount).

ChrisW · Mar 30, 2011

ORIGINAL: jason

PS I think your mad.

Are you trying to recreate it so that you can sell it hopefully at a profit? If you are do your sums closely on what its all going to cost to do an accurate rebuild and then come up with a realistic sale price (not a Tom non-sale value) for a non-matching 'street car' (ie no race provenance and known shell, rebuild history, changes made etc.

TBH I think you will make as much over time just leaving it the way it is and enjoying it for what it is - it has an interesting story all ready, and will be a lot of headaches less!

Sorry to agree with you Jason [

]

Hacki · Mar 30, 2011

ORIGINAL: ChrisW

ORIGINAL: jason

PS I think your mad.

Are you trying to recreate it so that you can sell it hopefully at a profit? If you are do your sums closely on what its all going to cost to do an accurate rebuild and then come up with a realistic sale price (not a Tom non-sale value) for a non-matching 'street car' (ie no race provenance and known shell, rebuild history, changes made etc.

TBH I think you will make as much over time just leaving it the way it is and enjoying it for what it is - it has an interesting story all ready, and will be a lot of headaches less!

Click to expand...

Sorry to agree with you Jason []

+1

DSCBoy · Mar 31, 2011

The idea of putting it back was actually for originality purposes. It might not be matching numbers, but it would be mine and it would to all bar the obsessive, an RS 3.8 Clubsport which I might not otherwise get to own/appreciate.

But I'm agreeing with you all. She's better off the way she is... pressed into the seat from stationary to 180mph last night she convinced me I couldn't take that motor out! She's still one of the quickest road cars out there, and is just so fabulous to drive.

Thanks for the moral support folks. Especially as the 3 opinions I value most were the 3 to give this a thumbs down (no offense Des.. ;-) )

Cheers
Rick