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911 for £10k - honest opinion

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Hi all, this is my first post to pcgb.

I currently drive a BMW 540i and it's up for renewal in a years time (I like to build up to these things slowly [;)]). I've around £19k to spend and my wife is urging me to spend wisely, and to remember that we need 4 doors for the baby.

Soooo... my current thoughts are a 4 year old 535d or.... a Ford Focus at £9k and £10k on something fun for me. I've previously owned a 1990 944 and a 1994 968 so was wondering whether £10k got me a good enough 911SC to have fun with.
It would do 4,000 miles a year pootling to work etc (rest in the hideous Focus).

Is this a realistic expectation? Am I storing up £0000000's of remedial work?

Can anyone suggest a good link to buying a 20 year old 911?

Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Scott
 
Dear Scott,

Welcome to the forum. To answer your question, it is definetly possible to get a £10.000 Porsche 911 and the obvious sources are Porsche Post (PCGB club magazine), www.impactbumpers.com , www.pistonheads.com , and the porsche magazines such as 911 & Porsche world et all. BUT...

Firstly, you can run a proper Impact bumper 911, with no rot and no engine or gearbox probs for an annual budget of around £1500, servicing and insurance included. Buy at bad one and you find yourself spending for the next 4 years an average of £5k a year. Ask me how I know...

Secondly, try to start with a numbers matching, period correct vehicle WITH HISTORY to a specification you feel comfortable with. You will chuck all your spare change anyway on that car, so better spend it on a keeper. You will improve that rust bubble, find that correct sun visor, buy one of Andy's (lighweight_911 on DDK) momo prototypo steering wheels, and then you read on the forum you really need superpro bushes and bilstein shockers and gor blimey there is a ducktail on Ebay etc.

I spend too much money on improving my 2.7 whilst I was perhaps better off waiting for the right Carrera 3 that I always wanted in the first place.

Thirdly, there seems to be, under the current market conditions, a watershed divide between the quality of the cars below £9,5k and those starting at £12k ish.

If I could turn back time, I would every time go for a turn-key and ready car from a reputable source or seller- the best I could find within my budget. Life is too short to not spend time on the road driving these things, and a bit of tinkering, cleaning, improving etc should be seen in function of the amount of time spend on the road. When petrol runs out and when taxes are getting too expensive, you will have enough time to polish your car :wink: but that's my opinion obviously.

The cheaper ones are sold needing a bit of body work, they might have had "half of a top end rebuild" (actual sale quote I came across), need a clutch within 15000 miles, shockers need replacing within 2 years, there is a third gear crunch that won't go away by switching to swepco gearbox oil and generally they are due for the beginning of an expensive maintenance cycle: you will spend 5K a year.

To illustrate some prices:(ballpark)
top end engine rebuild £3,5K (valve guides etc)
Bottom end engine rebuild £5,5 K (mine: bearings gone)
gearbox 2nd and 3rd synchros + rebuild £1,5K
shockers+ suspension bushes £850
setting up the car: corner weighting and balancing and setting the tracking £150- £270 respray in original colour £2K (bad respray under a railway arch ) to 6K and more (Graham Green, Robert Gant, Tuthhills, Nick Moss)
All the window rubbers: £1k
Set of refurbished fuch wheels with the black centre: 6 and 7 x 16: £400 / 1 pair of rear 8 x 16: £450, pair of 9 x 16 £650 more if you want the old style
Set of bridgestone tyres: £370
Pair of SSI heat exchangers: £550 when bought during a deal SSI
exhaust back box: anything form £350 to £550
B post (door post) repair: from £700 to £1200 each SIDE
if kidney bowls gone each side add another £600
sanding down corrosive reaction of front alu bumper,+ respray+ front valance and a bit of here and there £250
1 exchange front wing+ new bead + respray: £300 - 600
Front windscreen corrosion repair + respray: £300
oil service: £130
12000 mile service: £370
brake fluid change : £70

So in summary: due to the relative low value of the earlier impact bumpered cars at the moment (they are picking up) many owners skipped maintenance and used these cars as "cheap Porsches". The result it that many cars were not repaired appropriately because owners couldn't justify the expenditure relative to its market price. Secondly, many owners who bought a cheap porsche were interested in living the dream and flip the thing to another cheap porsche owner. There are some real dogs about. Finally, you also have the elderly owner who mothballed his car with a full history but you need to recommission the whole shebang and will need £1,5K to 2,5k to get it reliable and on the road.(brake and fuel lines, alternator, starter motor, fuel tank?, new tyres, suspension bushes, full service and and and)

There are fools like me who, irrespective of market condition, fell madly deeply in love with their car and, despite the spending spree of 5k a year, we will do it.Alternatively, I would really really try to get as good as a 3.0SC or an early 3.2 carrera as possible. If needs must, go for a LHD or perhaps a targa as they are about 10% cheaper, from a club member who used and maintained their car. Better to have some change on improving either the car with goodies or improving your drivers skills on a track instead of having a paper perfect dream broken down in a garage.

Also, I can heartily recommend Peter Morgans "the original 911" and Paul Frere's The 911 story for further reading....

Best of luck,
Bert
 
Hi Bert.

Wow; thanks for the full, detailed and frank response! That's pretty much everything I was looking for.
Having said that, not sure if you've sold it to me. Your message is very clear, that if you buy cheap and run it cheap, it will end up expensive.
I guess thing is, though, that once you've got the bug you wouldn't consider doing anything else.

Well, like I said, I've got a year to build up to this so I need to do plenty research. Wonder if there's an independant Porsche specialist in Edinburgh...

Cheers
Scott
 
Nice answer Bert!......you must have too much spare time [:D][;)]

I'd just add that whatever you pay for the car, once your hooked on 911's you'll probably want to pour money into it anyway!! It's just that on a good car it can be on nice upgrades like an ssi system etc and not on stuff like fixing rot or
gearbox re-builds!
 
Scott

It is within your budget - you just need to do what you have indicated, allow enough time to find what you are looking for - also go with your instinct and have any car you are seriously thinking of buying checked out by a professional Porsche technician.

As with any car you will always have an annual maintenance cost - just with an older Porsche it may be a little more pricey than some, but if you are aware of this and prepare for it (and buy the right car!) it is just part of the 'ownership experience'. As i say to my good lady when ever mine needs some tlc, caring for old family members sometimes incurs a cost - yes, she pulls that face as well!

I think i have mentioned in a reply elsewhere, that i spent a year researching and searching for my car, during this time i saw some real woofers, along with some great cars that were terrifically over priced, it really is a case of putting the leg work in, and also walking away if it doesn't feel right.

here's acouple of links to get you going:

http://www.911virgin.com/spanners.htm
http://www.chpltd.com/911_porsche_world/pwoclass1.html
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/index.asp?c=41

You will get there!

Good luck
 
Wow. Lots of good advice. My thoughts are that if you hunt carefully you can get a good one for £10k but that it is important to get a good one.

I'm not sure on using one as a daily driver in the winter (salt and rain)/ wet weather. I started out thinking it was OK and am currently paying the price. You have to be realisitic about it and budget accordingly. If an SC gets wet it will rust and it obviously do so from the inside out so when rust appears (which it will) it will not be cheap to get rid of.

Plus even a sedate old girl like an SC can show her teeth in autumn/ winter/ wet driving - I've spun (270), skidded, slid etc. The fronts on mine lock up a treat going down a few hills near me on a frosty morning - most stimulating.

Plus how long is your commute? 2 -4 miles each way? Although a 911 will behave itself to the shops driving it mainly on short journeys is not a good idea at all

At the end of the day it is a daft idea (well inefficient in time and money) to own an older 911, but a lot do and love it. I will not be parted from mine even if I have to get an extra job to pay for the garage and bodyshop bills. Perhaps the question is how much do you want it
 
Hi Scott,
Good luck with the SC hunting, I love mine and can't wait to drive it.
My car is my hobby and only use the car in the dry and do about 3000 miles a year for pleasure.
In the last 5 years I have been working on the car and lifting the bar improving here and there as you do with a hobby.
I have to totally agree with Jerry driving an SC during the winter and all that wet and salt is definately not a good idea if you want to protect your new purchace. It took me quite a while to get used to having an engine in the back and getting used to driving around corners.
Anyway it takes all sorts and probably a lot a guys do it with ease it's just my point of view.
A tip for you, in your research the 911 and Porsche mag did a very good buyers guide for the 911SC last year give then a call and buy a back issue you won't regret it.
Good luck
John
 
Personally I would spend a few k less on the Ford and buy a family Diesel Zafira, Scenic type car. You should also include a 964 in your search
 
£5000 focus and keep £14,000 for 911?

Or even, say, £2000 older reliable car (e.g. Audi!) leaving you £17,000(!) for the 911 - should give you much more leeway!
 
ORIGINAL: pse_SC

£5000 focus and keep £14,000 for 911?

Or even, say, £2000 older reliable car (e.g. Audi!) leaving you £17,000(!) for the 911 - should give you much more leeway!

Yep, thats the way to do it!.The secondhand car market is full of quite reasonable cars for low money.Keep the max for your Porsche.You know you want to.

JohnC
993turbo
 
ORIGINAL: sailor

ORIGINAL: pse_SC

£5000 focus and keep £14,000 for 911?

Or even, say, £2000 older reliable car (e.g. Audi!) leaving you £17,000(!) for the 911 - should give you much more leeway!

Yep, thats the way to do it!.The secondhand car market is full of quite reasonable cars for low money.Keep the max for your Porsche.You know you want to.

JohnC
993turbo

And the Porsche will hold it's value provided that you buy a good one and look after it. What will a £5k focus be worth in 5 years?[;)]

 

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