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911&PW - best 964 ever..

Matt

PCGB Member
Member
In the editors opening piece on the front few pages he says that a decent RHD 964RS is available for under £30k.....[8|]

Do the staff in 911PW live in a different world to me as the cheapest one I've seen was £33k - and that was a 80k miler with paint needed. Even if you bartered £3k off, that still left you with a rough old bag of a car - not a good example.

Are they trying to depress prices? is it a conspiracy?
 
I didn't know Quentin Wilson was writing for them now?

"I picked up this lovely old Jag for 75p, ran it for 6 months and sold it for £10,000 - now you can't get cheaper motoring than that..."
[&:]
 
....all I can assume it's was a typo and they meant LHD!

Looking in the rest of the mag, the cheapest RHD I could see was £43k![8|]
 
It will be a mistake. They used my car for the article, and Phil Raby knows very well what LHD and RHD cars are worth. If you look at the spec panel in the article, it isn't the only error....
 
Clarkey what is your engine set up/bhp, presumably you are not running the standard 260BHP? Your car stood out in the Maritime Blue.
 
My car is completely standard mechanically- no ECU or exhaust mods at the moment. Only changes from when it arrived at AFN are 4 point harnesses, full Matter cage and wheel spacers, all fitted by AFN when it was 2 years old.
 
Clarkey all those horses to release.........the RS in my opinion was always intended as a platform for the club racer to modify for their particular needs/vanity. Not to educate the educated and a wise 964RS owner.but just a simple cup pipe, cat by-pass (G-Pipe if you can handle the noise) will release power and great sound with a few hundred quid mpre go for AMD Chip, airbox mod and you are about 285BHP and under £1,200 in all The next stages get very expensive with Motec/kompressors/turbo etc and I think become a bit too OTT.
 
It is plenty fast enough for me at the moment....my preference will be to learn to drive it, to maximise roadholding/grip, and then to worry about power. I reckon 260bhp doesn't really feel any different to 285bhp in a 1200kg car anyway. In a Caterham yes, in a lardy porker, I'm not convinced.
 
ORIGINAL: Melv

And where does the driver training come in Des?

[;)]

Melv

Vey very true Melv........the RS is a real handful as we all know and there is no substitution for instruction........as I sat with the instructor driving round Spa with a busted rear end, he sliced past everything on the track including GT3, GT2, Turbo, F40 the lot..........I have never grinned so much in my life as the car in front fought to keep ahead of the lowly 964 in his mirrors but had to pull over...........that was driving....chatting away to me dancing round the pedals...the twenty minute session tuned into an hour of pure RS Heaven, the instructor loved the car and kept extending the session because of the traffic! Anyway Melv tell us about your 328 BHP!
 
Clarkey go and spend £50 quid on a secondhand cup pipe and you will se an immediate difference.......guaranteed. You don't know what you are missing.
 
Des please correct me if I am wrong but at the RS dyno day at JZ last year there was only one car made 285 BHP and that had £3500.00 freeflow system. I am not sure what else had been done It was the white car with 18" wheels.
Mine has a chip, cat delete, drilled airbox KN filter 273bhp oh and 2thou off the dipstick!
Jeff
 
Yes Melv,
Tell me about the 328BHP sounds like you have had a bit more than wheel bearings.
Last time I saw it on a dyno it was about 300bhp!
I think 911 PW and GT pp need proof readers for example 964RS has 4 valve heads!
Jeff
 
4 valve heads wouldn't make a difference - standard heads could go up to 400bhp without being the weakest link. Or so 9M tells me. I think Melv has his numbers round the wrong way - 283bhp - or even 238bhp, hehe. The only way beyond 300bhp is with different injectors, IIRC. That's 500 GBP spent immediately.

My Roock chipped 964RS with cat bypass on JZM'z road was 274bhp, I think. It may be remapped by Geoff Everet with Lambda sensor at some point tho', and we'll see if that can be improved upon.
 
I N C O R R E C T JEFF you are referring to Lee's car with Cargraphic full induction system IT DYNO'd 2 BHP less than mine. My car on the Day had the highest BHP and incredible torque from my simple and inexpensive set up.
 
Dear Mr Clarkey
I am very interested to note that you have owned a Superlight Caterham prior to your RS.
A good friend of mine is collecting a new R400 Superlight on saturday(full spec)and has an outstanding Bet with a local 964RS owner.
He believes his Caterham will be approx 3or 4 secs a lap Quicker around Oulton ,than the RS which is running approx 280bhp(based on both drivers having similar abilities)
What is the consensus of opinion??
 
Depends on the driver really...comparing like for like (regarding driver skill) the R400 will be far quicker.

In my Caterham owning days (SLR then R500) non-Caterhams and non-Radicals never came close. The difference between something like a 996TT and the R500 would be as much 20 seconds a lap at Donington. Forget all the rubbish about straight line speed, an R500 will do 145mph in no time, how many circuits in the UK allow you to go faster?

I haven't driven an R400, but as long as it has decent tyres, is flat-floored and doesn't have a windscreen, few Porsches will be as quick on a track.
 
Ill suggest the RS man stays well away from such future challenges!!!!
Thanks for your experienced viewpoint

John
 
The Cup was 300 at JZM, that is correct. The revised spec, this from RS Tuning in Germany and help with technical translation to my pal Jo:

> Umbau auf Sportkatalysator
Sportscatalyst (standard is 1000 cells the sports is also called 100cell sports katalyst sometimes)
> Anpassung der Sauganlage
Adaption of the Intake (see later that is the 993 part)
> Vergrößerung der Drosselklappe
Bigger "Throttle Flap" - kind of
> Montage eines Sportluftfilters
Sport Airfilter
> Montage eines Cup-Rohres
Cup-Tube, replaces the Muffler between the two sides of the outlets with just a plain tube
> neue Nockenwellen
new (NOT saying different of other - NOT saying same either - just saying "new") Camshafts
> Bearbeitung Zylinderköpfe
work done on the cylinderheads (probably means redoing the intake and outake, making them nicer, grinding away edges, polished etc.)
> Luftmassenmessung Typ 993
The sensor for measuring the mass of the air passing through the intake (as with the 993 model) rather than the amount (as standard with the 964) - AFAIK this goes along with the bigger throttle flap and the 993 intake as basically they fit the 993 intake with mass sensor and bigger throttle flap. This alone does get you close to 300 hp I was told.
> Programmerstellung auf stationärem Prüfstand
reprogramming the Motronic on a stationary engine test stand. This is good as the cheap guys just fit the 993 parts and put a standard chip in, whereas I was told that the tuning should ALWAYS include a reprogramming on a tests and making sure your engine is optimized and not just running an average of-the-shelf optimized Motronic.


With this spec, I have a bench test readout of 306bhp in the car 's history.

However, as you know, last year I ran number 5 bearing, with associated damage, so the engine was rebuilt. Craig at GT1 found a lot of non-standard gaskets and washers, plus sealant, which may have blocked oilways and led to its demise. He has rebuilt the engine 'by-the-book' and I can only assume that this was not the case before.

It's now fitted with new pistons and barrels and many other replacement parts, so I can only assume that the extra 23bhp found at G-Force is down to the rebuild.

Incidentally, they did two runs with a low ambient temperature that gave 318bhp, and one with a higher ambient, that, to their surprise, gave the higher reading.

Thye told me that 964's are notoriusly difficult to tune on the rolling road due t the high intake temperatures and in the summer they have had to wait until 11pm to get the temps down!!

Rgds
Mel
 
ORIGINAL: John Probert

Dear Mr Clarkey
I am very interested to note that you have owned a Superlight Caterham prior to your RS.
A good friend of mine is collecting a new R400 Superlight on saturday(full spec)and has an outstanding Bet with a local 964RS owner.
He believes his Caterham will be approx 3or 4 secs a lap Quicker around Oulton ,than the RS which is running approx 280bhp(based on both drivers having similar abilities)
What is the consensus of opinion??

I once did a little back-to-back comparison between a Caterham Superlight R (now R400) and my 274bhp 964RS with a mate of mine. Admittedly this wasn't on track, and was not under ideal conditions, but the Superlight DID have a distinct advantage, despite accelartion between 70-120 being comparable and beyond 120 the RS had the edge. On track, I think the R400 may have even more of an advantage. I have been out for hot laps with excellent drivers in both cars and my money would still be on the R400. It is a weapon above even the RS.

I have an RS now, but have owned a couple of Sevens and love them both. I'm v happy with my RS, but as Dirty Harry used to say: 'a man's gotta know his limitations'.

That could be why I am currently in the early stages of a 550bhp/950kg Ultima GTR build [;)]
 

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