911 SC Handling

[porkersc]

I am experiencing the some handling problems with my sc coupe. It's really hard work around the bends. I seem to have to "haul" it around. I know it's an old car. It seems to skip around the bends and the steering seems to really weight up. Do you think this could be worn trailing arm bushes? Any advice appreciated to sharpen up the handling as it's really diminishing the enjoyment of the car for me. On a fairly tight budget at mo due to impending Le-Mans trip(in Porsche naturally) and 12k service looming and MOT and Tax[&:]

 

[Bazgillie]

Porkersc read Johnny Glynns running reports he has had similar sounding problem.
Baz

 

[Guest]

Mine was trailing arm bushes on one side, could feel the car dig in at the back on certain bends and sort of lurch in the middle of a corner as the camber of the rear wheel changed drastically. Made driving fast hard work, cruising was not all that different though. We drove it back from South of France like that and only really noticed when back on more familiar ground and pushing the car a bit harder.

Is there any play in the front, any knocks or bangs over rough ground? My car having the bearing adjustment and wishbone bushes checked in service this week as has a tendency to move around under braking and is definitely pulling more than it should over bumps.

Still a superb drive since the back end was sorted though, loved the run down to Husborne today.

 

[porkersc]

Thats exactly what mine feels like. Great on the motorway and lang sweeping A road. As soon as i start pushing it on the country lanes near my house it all starts to fall apart and i then get really frustrated with it and i start sulking. Going to get it booked in this week and get it checked out with my local specialist. Have just read your running report John and the credit card started twitching but may aswell have it right so that i can rekindle my 911 flame!!

 

[bones]

I think what we all have to remember that our cars are getting old and if the suspension bushings haven't already been changed they should be as a matter of priority, there are alternative upgraded (read expensive) components readily available and a wealth of technical know how for the DIYer. The problem with this work is that it's tough and labour intensive. I had planned on a suspension refurb this year but because of other things have now decided to do this in stages, starting with the shocks.
If any one has changed shocks and simply revalved them could you post the results, the mileage on shocks before the revalving and the cost. This is an option I may look into if it's a performance gain as apparently you get a completely matched set of shocks set up for your cars weight etc.

 

[Franck]

Hi Bones,

I changed the dampers on my car a while ago and upgraded to bilstein which made a huge difference on the handling. However, if the car was indeed great on the track, it was a bit of a handfull for everyday motoring (too stiff, jumping and so on). The car is currently being serviced at Francis Tuthill and I metionned this problem to Francis who took the car for a test drive and also felt that the handling was certainly not user friendly. We therefore decided to check the all car in terms of corner weight, ride height, wheel alignment and so on and took the dampers off to check them. It appears that the rebound setting on the dampers is far to high and I therefore asked Francis to have them revalved to a more acceptable level. I should be getting the car back early next week and will be taking it along to the Cotswold Rally when I will be able to tell you a little more about the change it has made and indication of costs involved.

FXM

 

[bones]

Hi Frank I'll be there too, introduce yourself, I'm the incredibly cool guy in the wheelchair with a fashionably shaved dome! Tuthill's your man for this era of 911s. I've had Bilstein sports on mine as they are stock for the SC sport model. I love them but will be happy to take advice on revalving versus buying new, maybe I'll speak to Francis or go and see him. I believe when they are revalved you have to supply certain relevant figures so they can be set correctly, I wonder how this works with complete new?

 

[Guest]

Hi Franck, my car is also in at Tuthills at the minute for a service so I saw yours today. What a beautiful colour, looks fantastic.

In a bid to allay my front end insecurities, the guys have stripped, coppereezed and bled the brakes, as they thought my problem might be in the front calipers binding, but they were rebuilt last year and feel fine to me so can't be that.

Looking at the track rod ends, one is quite worn and Paul has done me a bit of a deal on turbo track rods so they are doing that now, we will see how that and a bearing adjustment affects the slight wandering when the front is loaded up.

Front of your car is all stripped - Francis was telling me what you are having done. Sounds good! []

 

[Franck]

Hi John,

Thanks for the compliment on my car color. It is one of those you love or hate but to date everybody seems to love it [][]

Thanks for the pictures and the update as well (I can just make up my car in the far right corner) . I might actually go and have a look at it if the front end is completely off, to check things are clean and in good condition.

Bones, below is a list of damper settings and so on. Sorry it is in french but I guess it is quite self explanatory. For info, my front bilstein are currently set up at the "Mille Lacs" setting. The revalving will be done to put a setting of around 160 (Francis is taking care of it and he is the expert so I trust him on that one).

Les "normaux" (ne sont autres que ceux d'origine des 930 ou l'option chassis sport des 3.2).

AV : Réf : P36 0114 sport . Tarage ;.160/127.
AR : Réf : B46 0169 sport . Tarage : 160/127

Les "circuits" :

AV : Réf : P36 0116 . Tarage : 160/160
AR : Réf : B46 0967 . Tarage : 160/160

Les "rallyes" :

AV : Réf : P36 0015 . Tarage : 225/112
AR : Réf : B46 0975 . Tarage : 300/150

Les "Mille Lacs" :

AV : Réf : RE3 50973 . Tarage : 270/100 pour cartouche Bilstein, sinon changement tube+cartouche, Réf : V36 0392 ou 93 G ou D.
AR : Réf : B46 0973. Tarage : 350/130


Ce qui est conseille pour une 3.2 ( majorite route / un peu circuit) ,donc pour une SC, ca devrait etre pareil est:

Sport a l'AV : Réf : P36 0114 sport . Tarage ;.160/127.
Circuit a l'AR : Réf : B46 0967 . Tarage : 160/160



See you at the Rally.

FXM

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Franck

Thanks for the pictures and the update as well (I can just make up my car in the far right corner) . I might actually go and have a look at it if the front end is completely off, to check things are clean and in good condition.

I am happy to report that one could eat dinner off the underside of your wheelarches (but for the small matter of gravity) [8D]

What a lovely car!

 

[bones]

mmmm.....definitely my sort of colour.

 

[bruceb]

yes I agree what a nice colour car!

I had my SC set up at Francis's workshop last autumn for the new PCGB track day season. First outing is at Castle Coombe this saturday, really looking forward to seeing how it goes with Francis's revised suspension settings,

Bruce
83 SC

 

[porkersc]

Just had a full 12k service and i have just fallen back in love with it. New gearbox oil and just had the all the suspension re-aligned and the difference is amazing it is a totally different car. Handles and goes just as i dreamt a 911 should. Not for sale any more i just couldn,t do it to myself[]

 

[Guest]

Great news! []

 

[porkersc]

Cheers John.

 

[Franck]

Got my car back from Tuthill last night and although I have only done around 60 miles since, I can already say that the new front damper settings, wheel alignment and so on have definetely improved the car's handling. The car was indeed way to stiff at the front and made it a handfull to drive on little country roads (although it was fantastic on the track !!!)[][][]
Francis has also fine tuned the engine and the power is now back at low revs. The engine felt a little asmathic before (not too sure about the spelling of that one) but this is also a great improvement.

Can't wait for Sunday at the Cotswold Rally.

See you all there ?[]

FXM

 

[Guest]

Hurray! Glad it's all sorted now Franck.

Have just been down at Tuthills and had my book stamped with the service details (forgot it last week), heard you had picked the car up. We are at the Stoke Goldington event this weekend, hopefully meet up with you at one of the other summer get-togethers to hear the full story.

 

[SJW BASIRE]

Love the photos! In my experience there are two types of alignment checks.The first I had at an OPC which basically involved nothing more than winding on more toe in to compensate for too much negative camber caused by tired struts-this made my steering heavy.
The second involved removal of the strut mounts and rewelding the mounting nuts so that the geometry could be adjusted back to factory settings.
My next alignment will involve new top mounts and Bilstein struts and all new bushes but that is a long term plan.
I asked in my OPC and top mount bushes are £78 each-not bad considering the scare stories I had heard about them!!

 

[bones]

Met Franck briefly on the Cotswold Rally yesterday and he was extremely pleased with the work Francis Tuthill had done for him, seems he's very good at tuning the car for the place where a lot of us seem to spend our time - on B roads - However Franck as stock Bilsteins fitted but I'd go for Sports again and get Francis to get the best out of them for road use.
Nice to meet you Franck and we must have a longer natter next time, I didn't get back to the club house till later (see other story in the Cotswold thread) due to enjoying the single track 'stages' too much i.e. repeating them with in-car camera footage to follow , I hope.