924 Investment

[Guest]

About 9 years ago I picked up a copy of "Classic Car". In it they had a small handbook that listed a number of cars that they thought were "Good Buys". As I had 5k to spend on such vehicles the booklet was invaluable and from it I selected the following. An old Merc 350SL; MGBGT; Jaguar XJS and the Porsche 944. I rejected the Merc and the Jag on the grounds of running costs. I rejected the MG on the grounds that I'd had one before and I wanted something different. The choice then was the 944 (which changed to a 924S in the end as better value for money). I was pleased with the selection after all you get 2.5 litres of branded Porsche, galvanised body and excellent performance.
However, 9 years on I am disappointed that there has been none of the maintenance of the re-sale value and now, Trading Post and others regualrly show that the going rate is probably less than 3k at best, except for exception examples.
What went wrong?

 

[937carrera]

Quite simple, the price of new cars fell, in relative terms, which hit the entire second hand market. Just be glad you didn't buy a computer []

Look at it another way, £2k loss in value ofer 9 years is £222 depreciation per year. Thats got to be cheap motoring []

 

[Guest]

You're right of course. I have made an emotional investment that has a superb daily dividend!
I'm still left with the question regarding the sense in the MGB seemingly having a better financial return, and I'm sure the enthusiast there would also claim the same emotional quotient.

 

[924nutter]

Mike you are dead right. One doesn't buy a 924 as a hedge against inflation, and even the best only go for about £3500, but the emotional investment is incalculable especially if, like me, you do your own service and repair. I have just spent an emotional week repairing the head gasket on the 931 ready for the steam rally at Stoke Goldington, following a desperate plea from '911 sport', only to find out at the 11th hour that the event is washed out, and inaccessible to our type of vehicle. Typically here in Marlow, Il fait du soleil, (this is private joke for Steve Darnell of Region 10). I had the choice of a 911 with 114,000 miles, or a 71,000 mile 928. and I bought the latter, an infinately more refined car than the 924, but I still find myself using the '24 as my daily. Now I've upgraded to a 931, (924 turbo for those who prefer type names rather than purist's numbers) I find the S4 hardly gets a look in. I have driven 924s almost exclusively since 1988 when I bought myt first one, and had a 944s in between, but that monocoque is so nimble. Put the 170 ponies up it's chuff and you have the car that Porsche should have put on sale first. Any involvement with a 924 is a labour of love.

 

[danmason]

it's good to hear I wasn't the only one having to do frantic last minute preparation for the steam rally! []

 

[924nutter]

Dan I'm still going up to the r10 meet at weston underwood. just gonna do a wheel wash and vac. Then leaving marlow 16:30

 

[Guest]

Now there is a difference between the MGB and the Porsche. I guess that the MGB would just about be within my scope for hands-on work. But the 924 has a degree of modernity that fightens me off. Mainly in the fuel delivery area (DME & Injection) and all that stuff about having to have the right (and expensive) belt tensioning gear for the cam belts. Just had the price for a replacement alternator at 650 quid (new) from Road Range and I think 450 quid for a recon model from Stratstone. Thank heaven for Simon Butterworth at 45 quid.

 

[geoff Ives]

Look at it another way, £2k loss in value ofer 9 years is £222 depreciation per year. Thats got to be cheap motoring

In 1995 I pursgchased a 1974 911s for £9,000. It is still worth £9,000. Since purchase it has required a new clutch fitted price £680, brake poblem solving £300, engine rebuild £4,000, welding for MOT most years at about £150 p/a. Depreciation =nil costs over normal running costs = £5,050.

In 1997 I purchased a 1982 924 lux. Cost £2,250. It is now worth c£1,250.
Since purchase it has required a new clutch fitted price £290, clyinder head re-skim and gasket £220. Alternator £70. No welding and it romps through the MOT every year. Depreciation = £1,000 cost over normal running cost =£580.

The 911 costs me £520 per year to garage and is used infrequently.
The 924 stands in the yard and is used every day.

911 returns 19 mpg. 924 returns 27 mpg.
911 = pure passion. 924 = practicability and comfort.

You pays your money and takes your choice.
I wouldn't be without either of them.

 

[924nutter]

Taking each point in turn, there is no DME on the 924, but there is a rather expensive ignition module which can fail after about 170,000 miles at a cost of £308+vat.(last known price from O.P.C. in 2001) I have never had a fuel metering unit fail, which is just as well because they are nearly as expensive, but probably no dearer than converting the 'B' to run on Webers because you can't get the S.U.s reconditioned.
The cambelt on the 924 does, ideally, need a special tensioning tool but as a rule of thumb the belt should be tightened so that when gripped between thumb and forefinger it can be twisted through approximately 100 degrees. I used to say 90, but it tends to make the belt whine a bit when first fitted. The prices you were quoted for an alternator seem to be out by a factor of ten. (well, nearly) I within the last twelve months I have fitted an alternator, not a five minute job on the lux, but dead easy on the turbo as the alternator and metering units swap places. I paid £85+vat exch. from German and Swedish. Try Porscheshop.co.uk, PartsforPorsche.co.uk, for prices.

 

[924nutter]

Update. I have just been on to the Porshceshop website and they quote £105+ vat, for an alternator. If I was to pay someone to fit it for me, at £56 hour I would only be looking at £112 labour maximum, allowing for clean up, based on my time for the job as only a competent D.I.Y.er without a lift or a pit; with those facilites I reckon I could do it in 90 minutes, possibly less. In other words Mike, there is no need to be afraid.

 

[937carrera]

ORIGINAL: 924nutter

Taking each point in turn, there is no DME on the 924,

True, but I think he has a 924S

Either way, there's nothing to be afraid of IMHO

 

[924nutter]

R! Y didn't E make th@ clear. I should have guessed from the DME comment and put two and two together. Even so that's a bit steep for a 924s alternator. Porscheshop, 924s £127+vat. Sorry Mike looks like I'm the beginner here.

 

[geoff Ives]

If you are that worried about prices, the scrap yards are full of 924's at the moment and second hand prices are cheap.
Fitting an alternator on a lux is dead easy ( assuming that you are double jointed with an extra nuckel on each finger and dont mind making up a special set of tools) even I managed it in about 2 hours and a breakdown of family relasionships.

 

[danmason]

Mike, these things get much easier with practice! The first time I had to fit an alternator to a lux it took me quite a while... but once you know which tools to use, and which order to do everything in, it's a cinch - maybe 30mins including jacking up and down. Actually I think the Haynes guide is pretty good when it comes to this particular job. Having said that, you're dealing with an 'S', and personally I've always found that engine a bit more difficult to work on - not enough room under the bonnet! []

 

[Guest]

A thank you to all the guys' encouragement to get the DIY mentality back. The alternator in itself doesn't worry me and at Simon Butterworth's 45 quid I'll certainly do that. The last job I did was the replacement of the front discs and pads which was straightforward, and the replacement of the bonnet struts (which was a good work out for the biceps!) During the last service from Hartech they recommended the changing of the fuel pipes, any hints/experience on this one?

 

[PaulHere]

Re: fuel pipes

This applies to the 2.0 model at least
The fuel line on my car split (after 20 years) late last year, the original is one piece but the replacement came in two sections at £67.58 and £80.89 before VAT (prices: PC Hatfield)
Just one side of the suspension was dropped to get the line installed

Should last another 20 years now []

 

[924nutter]

Read my post about fuel pipes on the thread for Mr Beaky non adjustable shockers in the 944 section. Trust me.

 

[Guest]

Just got my copy of Porsche Post. One favourite part is the Trading Post section. Since joining the Porsche club in 1995, I have noted a marked decline in the number of 924 entries. Does this mean we're becoming rarer? I haven't seen, or noted, any data for the number of members vs car type so I wondered if the number of cars for sale was an indication of the profile of the membership.
I also noted that the North West's Hartech, used to concentrate solely on the 924/944/968 family, but they've had to broaden their church to include air coolers as well now.