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924S - Pig to Start

Fred Hindle

Fred Hindle

New member
Advice needed please.
My 924S (same 2.5 engine as 944) has become a pig to start when cold. When it eventually does catch then the engine is very erratic, coughing and sputtering. It needs to sit for a few minutes (with the throttle being played with) before setting off. If I do set off before the engine has settled down it will cut out under load. Being automatic I can't just dip the clutch. A couple of times it won't fire up again if it does die completely. I think that it is 'over-choking' itself. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what is causing the problem and how to rectify it? (Already had a new DME relay fitted).
Cheers,
 
Fred,
Does it ramp up to fast idle once it's running?If not,sounds like the cold start system which can include:
Engine temp sensor,this,for a cold start tells the ECU that it's cold
.
Thermotime switch;this with above controls the cold start fast idle.

Extra air valve; this should allow extra intake air to the airflow meter at cold start to help with the mixture enrichment that the ECU gives in conjunction with 1 & 2.As the engine warms up,the extra airvalve then starts to close and 2 also times out the fast idle.
Dry joints in the ECU can develop over time leading to zero fast idle.This can make starting sound like what you have got.

Also,your car could be ??????.

I would take out the plugs,warm them in the oven,spray WD40 over electricals,after checking all the Bosch type connectors on the accessible sensors and try again.Unfortunately,the Ex AirValve is under the intake manifold.

I have some of the sensors & an EAV which you can use to check it out if you want.

Cheers.
 
Hello Colin.
Once it is running it will rev for fun. Very lumpy at low revs and the engine dies without some nifty footwork on the accelerator.
Xenon has already mention the ICV / EAV so this is looking favourite. (Tetigisti acu )I'll probably end up swapping bits over from the 944 until I find the culprit. Thanks for the offer of borrowing your spare ones. I may still take you up on it. I could use the run as a practice for Woodvale. I maybe in touch.

Cheers

 
Haven't started looking at the car yet, too wet and windy to be playing outside.

If I get it into the garage sometime this week I'll start trying various things that people have mentioned.

Cheers,
 
Nathan,
Thanks for the info re the ISV. I do have the Haynes 944 Manual. (I'm on my second one, the first got too oily to be legible!). With all the advice that I have had from various people I should be able to sort 'The Shed' out.
Went to the 964 today, battery had been on a conditioner but only managed to start the engine but it wouldn't pick up 'cos' of the weak battery. So that is now topped up and on a battery charger.Bike wouldn't start either (oiled up plugs) so that put paid to getting the 924S in the garage so I could start looking at the problem. Not doing it outside, my drive is like a wind tunnel and I'm too old and fragile nowadays. I'll see if I have any more luck tomorrow.

Cheers,
 
Think I may have cured the problem. Took the car for it's MOT yesterday, left it there overnight. Spoke to the lad who started it this morning.
Asked him 'How did it start?'
'First time on the key, no problem, ran lovely'

So what did I do to the car yesterday before taking it to the garage? Cleaned the dizzy cap and the rotor arm. Rotor arm was mucked up to hell.
Motto - look at the simple things first

Watch this space to see if it has actually cured it or just a hiccup.

Cheers,
 
After I brought the car home yesterday morning I parked it up and left it.
I bit cold and windy overnight so a good test of its starting this morning.
First turn of the key and ticking over like as littl' good un.
So, looks as if it is cured. Thanks everyone for your input and suggestions, they will be noted for the next time.

Cheers,
 
The car failed it's MOT, brake pipes and a bit of welding needed doing . Got it back from the garage yesterday so finally fitted a new rotor arm this morning.

This is the first time I have ever had to break a rotor arm to get it off! It was absolutely knackered. No wonder I have had problems with the starting. New rotor arm on and it fired up without hesitation. Just waiting for the tax disc to arrive in the post before taking it out to see how it runs now.

Cheers,
 
Fred,
When I did the 2 belts last year on the 924S,I broke the rotor arm getting it off(and I had removed the fixing screw first).As I recall,it had been cemented on as well as the screw fixing and would have been the original arm.Was the air a little blue on the Fylde?
Cheers,
Colin.[:)]
 
Colin,
Luckily the job was to replace the rotor arm so the new one was sat there waiting to go on. Had it just been a case of needing to remove the arm to do something else (clean it etc) then breaking it would have been a pita.
The bakelite part broke quite easily, getting the brass part off was a swine.
The arm had disintegrated between the central contact and the end of the rotor arm. The spark was was being conducted through crap.
Picture attached, not a pretty sight!

Cheers,

08B0B3447C8F45798ADFC2DE1719541E.jpg
 
I didn't know rotor arms had a fixing screw...
Mind you I don't think I've looked at mine for about 5 years!
Will have to unclip the distributer cap and have a look.
 
Paul, your's does not have a fixing screw. Fred's is a 924S with the distributor in the head, on the end of the camshaft, laying horizontally. The distributor cap is held in place with screws.
 
Fred. Did you put the new rotor arm on with just a smidgin of either silicone grease or good old Coppaslip on the shaft ? I've had a similar struggle to get mine off on the 924S and on two Passat's.
I always use a thin coat of one of these after cleaning shaft with ultra-fine emery cloth ('crocus' cloth courtesy of the R*d Arrow's maintenance boys - don't ask ....).
 
A wee spot of grease. Although it is now on the maintenance schedule to remove rotor arms on 944 and 924S everytime I do an oil change (every 3K miles) so hopefully won't have that problem again.
Haven't looked at the 944 rotor arm yet. (Building up the courage[:)]).

My BIL was the Engineering Officer for the Red Arrows for a while. he kept mentioning about emery cloth going missing, I can now put his mind at rest.[;)]

Cheers,
 
Paul,
Just to clarify;The 924S has the distributor in line with the engine so that it lies horizontally facing forward behind the front panel.The cap is held on (on mine at least)by 2captive spring loadedlatches which as Fred indicates can be a pig to engage;you have to push hard on the screwhead & turn simultaneously,at the same time holding the cap hard on the distributor.As well,the rotor arm has a small capscrew through the side of it which screws into a tapped hole in the rotor arm shaft.In my case,this screw and the rotor arm had locking cement on them.Your 924 has a normal push on rotor arm.[8|]
 
Locking cement sounds a bit of overkill to me Colin. I bet you were annoyed when you saw that someone had done that.
The 'Shed' is now running like a dream by the way. Thank you for your offer of parts to try and locate the fault.

Cheers,


 
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