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944 as a track car - right choice?

A

ArBee

New member
Hello Guys,

I want to build myself a track car (no road use) and naturally it needs to be a Porsche. I can't afford to strip down my 996 C4S, as I like driving that on the road too much.

So I have arrived at the 944 and I'm thinking the S2. This will be my first foray into such a project and by my own admittance its not something I have done before so any help would be appreciated I have moderate mechanical skills and I have good facilities to build the car but I expect to be a regular scrounger of information and knowledge in the months, no years to come.

I'm quite a methodical type of person and like to plan things in detail before diving in so I need to kick of my research by gauging where I need to start looking in terms of the model to settle on. I do realise that people are biased towards their particular choice and I expect that to be a factor but I need to hear the thoughts of those of you who have gone down this route to try and help me decide. That's if you don't mind of course.

Obviously the initial budget on sourcing the car is a major factor and this project has no real time frame to speak of. It's just something I have had a hankering to do so I have started to look at the options and I can't think of a better place to start.

£64 thousand dollar question: Is the S2 the right car? And what kind of track car can I expect to end up with?
RB
 
ORIGINAL: ArBee
I want to build myself a track car (no road use) and naturally it needs to be a Porsche.
Click to expand...

Why would you want to track a car that's anything heavier than a ton?
 
Well, nothing is impossible, but I'd believe you will struggle to get there.
 
I can tell you with certainty that you will struggle to get any 944 down to 1,000kgs semi-wet.
 
Hi . I know very little about 944 s but i do know a bit about track day cars . And i would agree that low weight is top priority . It is the cheapest way to go faster unless you go silly with carbon fibre everything . It also means tyres brakes etc will last longer . Would a 924s be a better starting point? Under a ton and 160 hp with decent set up can show up some expensive kit from personal experience of a similar weight and power car
 
I'll be honest: this whole notion of a "Track Car" slightly confuses me.

If you were saying "Racing Car" then I'd be able to guess what you are aiming for: something on four wheels that will get you 'round the circuit in question quicker than anyone else, within the rules of the class you are racing in. Be that wheel-to-wheel racing or timed racing (a la hillclimbing).

But what is a "Track Car"? You aren't racing (every track day I have ever been on has explicitly banned racing in all forms), so therefore you are looking at something that will simply be good fun to drive around a circuit.

So, are you asking which 944 is most fun? Because, to be honest, if I was in the market for 'fun' on a reasonable budget I'd be looking at a Caterham Seven (or similar) or a trad mini. With some subtle modifications to make it better to drive - a bit more compromised on noise and refinement, in favour of response and feedback (which are the cornerstones of a car being 'fun' in my book.)

Correct me if I am wrong. And apologies - I fear I may have just pushed the thread off-course. (Which you really should expect, posting on the PCGB 944 forum, eh!)


Oli.

P.S. If you are asking for the 944 that is the most fun to drive then I suspect you'll either be looking for delicacy of response and feel, in which case you'll be needing an early lux, or something which thumps you in the back within about 5 seconds of you lighting the blue touchpaper, in which case you'll be in the market for a heavily modified turbo, depending upon what floats your boat.
 
If it needs to be a Porsche then a 924/944/968 will serve you well. I track my S2 about three times a year and it's great fun, although it's a road car that I take on the track. Ironically though I far prefer driving it on the track than the road. Meanwhile a fellow poster (A.Wang) is having his S2 readied for track work as we speak. As I understand it he's gone for a stripped interior, full cage, bigger brakes and GAZ coilover suspension, all being done by EMC motorsport.

What I would say is that if you want to do track days more than you want to build a track car then you are far better off buying one that somebody has already built. I see there's a 968 on PistonHeads right now that although seemingly expensive probably represents good value compared to doing it yourself. Plus I am a fan of keeping the few 968 road cars that we have as that - road cars.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/921122.htm

If it were me I would start with a 250hp 944 Turbo, as that way you will have the bigger brakes, beefier anti-roll bars and the potential for a decent amount of power relatively easily. An S2 is far harder to extract significant power gains, and I suspect you'd quickly find yourself wanting more if, as you say, this is just going to be a track car.

Whatever you decide do keep us posted.[;)]
 
I'll certainly encourage you though.

Replace the hatch glass with a polycarbonate part (removing the rear wiper in the process).
Replace the bonnet with a GRP part.
Either replace the front wings with GRP parts or strip all of the underseal off the original steel parts.
Replace the battery with a Brialle or similar part.
Remove the door cards, handles and window regulators and replace with <1mm aluminium sheet.
Replace the side glasses with 4mm polycarbonate replacements (fixed with vents in the rear 1/4).
Remove, if fitted, the airconditioning peripherals under the bonnet.
Remove the power steering pump; retain the power rack with a pipe joining the 'in' and 'out' ports.
Replace the standard heavy exhaust with a lighter Dansk system, or similar.
Remove the cabin and load deck carpets.
Remove the sound deadening pads from the cabin floor
Remove the sound deadening material from the door skins.
Remove both front seats and replace with light race seats (aim for <6kgs ex. mounts).
Remove the rear sear back and squab.
Treat the tyres and remove the spare wheel; jack and tools.
Remove the rear seat belts.
Remove the radio and all of speakers.
Replace the cassette holder with a poverty spec / 968CS tray.
Remove the tailgate release motor and replace with a pull cable (as used to operate a mechanical fire extinguisher).
Remove the electric sunroof lifting mechanism (early 944s and most 924s had a simple manual lift)
Remove the central locking motors from both doors.
Remove the roadwheels and substitute the lightest replacements that you can find (theres a lot of weight here).
Remove the rubbing strip and drill the rear bumper.
Remove the headlamp pods and lifting assembly/motor and replace with 924GT-S type fixed headlamps.
Remove the 951 PU mounted lamps and replace with ABS brake ducts.

This'll make it a good deal lighter, but Id be surprised if youd get close to 1 tonne without acid dipping the shell and replacing the wiring loom.....

Simon

 
ORIGINAL: bw64870

Hi . I know very little about 944 s but i do know a bit about track day cars . And i would agree that low weight is top priority . It is the cheapest way to go faster unless you go silly with carbon fibre everything . It also means tyres brakes etc will last longer . Would a 924s be a better starting point? Under a ton and 160 hp with decent set up can show up some expensive kit from personal experience of a similar weight and power car
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No, not in my experience. My 924S weighed more to start with than my series one 944...

I missed out: trim out the metal from the centre of the inner door from my list above. Im sure that there are other things that Ive omitted too.
 
ORIGINAL: zcacogp
P.S. If you are asking for the 944 that is the most fun to drive then I suspect you'll either be looking for delicacy of response and feel, in which case you'll be needing an early lux, or something which thumps you in the back within about 5 seconds of you lighting the blue touchpaper, in which case you'll be in the market for a heavily modified turbo, depending upon what floats your boat.
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Id suggest a very early poverty spec series one too. No power steering, no electric hatch release, manul sunroof, if it has one at all... Windows and GRP panels are cheap and easy to find (with the exception of the polycarbonate hatch, but I know someone who has one for sale [;)]) and the trim will be ready for the skip anyway. Add a set of GAZ dampers and decent Pagid pads (the brakes came off a 911 Turbo after all and theyre not as poor as some would have you believe) and a nice set of very light Fuchs and youre away.
 
Just buy a ex - race car . Then most if not all of the hard work will be done for you....And you can then try + take out some more weight.. If thats possible...
I wish i had done that a LONG time ago. Itd-ve saved me a hole load of time + money....[;)][;)]
 
I agree with Dave - if it's a track only car, buy a race car. All the work's been done, and you should have a decent set-up already. It's much cheaper & quicker to buy a car already prepped. There are loads of 968 race cars up for sale at the moment.

IMO the 944 is a great compromise car - if you have a road / track car then you can have a car that is still comfortable for road use while being very competent on a circuit. Try driving a race car on the road & you'll see how uncomfortable that is [:D]. I've run a couple of ex race cars (both Fords) as track cars in the past & they have been tremendous fun for very little money.

The main 944 issues are weight (as everyone has already said) and noise - the 944 is just too quiet (particularly the turbo). Part of the fun of track days for me is the drama - I hear more noise from other cars on the track than I do from my 944. I've never driven a race 944, so i don't know how much more immediate & intense the experience is in a lighter & noisier version.

I don't want to sound too negative - after all, we wouldn't all be here if we thought the 944 was a bad car - but I'd have a good look at lighter kit cars - this for example:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/867728.htm
or
a Sylva Phoenix http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/916412.htm
Striker http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/608821.htm (a mate of mine bought a very tidy one similar to this for 4k recently)
SSC Stylus http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/914561.htm (Sylva is supposed to have one of the better chassis of the kit cars out there)
- or if you want something competely scary - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/702908.htm
 

Whilst cars under a ton are great fun, they are also lacking in protection relative to others and also generally lack top speed.

Thus which circuits would you like to play with? Long fast ones or short technical ones?

Will it be mostly track use with occasional road use or a mix - if a mix I bet the road miles will outweigh the track miles, I think the most I have done on a trackday is around 150miles.

Depends, on a budget an early 944 and strip it completely will take time but you will have bits to sell and you can remove a hell of a lot. With a bit more an S2 or Turbo will give you more power to start and probably more profit from the bits to sell.


Generally thos who do lots of trackdays end up with a Turbo, there are a few dedicated to the LUX and the odd 1 or 2 with an S2. The luxes tend to be extreme Simon's with no interior at all, Peter's with an S2 lump and soon to be supercharged - I have seen a lux with full turbo runnning gear.

There are more turbos but they generally are dual purpose doing many road miles as well. The turbos are usually the fastest but that doesn't necessarily make them the most fun though I enjoy mine ;)
Turbos can be modified for more power but this means spending more, though spread over some years.......


Tuition, Suspension and tyres will make the biggest difference.

Track days are not racing however and if you see them developing into that a Turbo may not be the best place to invest as there are very few championships they can enter. In this case an ex-race car would be the best place to start.

Tony


PS I think a modded 944T is ideal on track and have passed many many cars that have suprised me - 355 / 360 / caterfields / tvrs / atom / race prepped BMW/ etc etc.
 
ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK

Just buy a ex - race car . Then most if not all of the hard work will be done for you....And you can then try + take out some more weight.. If thats possible...
I wish i had done that a LONG time ago. Itd-ve saved me a hole load of time + money....[;)][;)]
Click to expand...
+1 ( more than once )

There are a couple of S2 race cars that are for sale and having driven a couple of 44/68 race cars I can say with some confidence that they bear (bare?) no resemblance to any road or even "track prepped" 944's I've owned or driven. Everything is more Extreme, and in the good way.. except noise... thats extreme in a very bad way.

Are you serious about the NO road driving? are you trailering the car?

There is a VERY nice 944S2 race car for sale that was built by EMC in a Silver Rose ( non sunroof) shell. Stunningly good looking and stupidly fast...

but deffo dont go down the route of trying to convert a road car... unless you have long arms deep pockets.
 
Id second that: unless you take the cheap series one route and you spend well under £3,000. Otherwise youre better off buying an ex-EMC race car. Later cars will be dipped and you can save further weight with poly windows and hatch, as Kev keeps the glass in now 'because it polishes up better'.
 
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