944 GTP/R Le Mans

[supersport]

Hi guys,

Does any one know anything about the 944 GTP/R Le Mans, apparently there was only 1 built. I am trying to find out if any 944s ever raced at Le Mans, and I have found a reference and picture of this car. However, I have also found a listing that said this was really a 924 GTR "944 LM" driven by Jurgen Barth and Walter Rohl in the 81 race.

Cheers

Mark.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

If I recall, there were 3 924's entered, but one had the prototype 944 engine in it - is that the one you mean?

 

[Diver944]

Hi Mark, All the info you need is in this thread:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=72619&mpage=1&key=gtp&#72644

and there's some pictures of the GTR that was at Eynsham Hall last year are in this thread here:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=216426&mpage=3&key=coys

Enjoy [] It's actually quite scarey to think there are now many more road 944s that have more power that that 375HP Le Mans car []

 

[supersport]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Hi Mark, All the info you need is in this thread:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=72619&mpage=1&key=gtp&#72644

and there's some pictures of the GTR that was at Eynsham Hall last year are in this thread here:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=216426&mpage=3&key=coys

Enjoy [] It's actually quite scarey to think there are now many more road 944s that have more power that that 375HP Le Mans car []

Thanks for that info, is pretty much what I had already found. I am still a little confused to whether or not the 1981 Le Mans car is officially a 924 or a 944? From what I can see it appears to be a 924 in name.

 

[burrow01]

Hi

According the Norbert Singer in 24/16 the 944 engine was installed into the 924 GTR chassis and entered into the 1981 Le Mans as a 924 GT Prototype as the 944 had not yet been publicly announced - it came seventh overall, driven by Jurgen Barth and Walter Rohrl.
Power output was 370Bhp (down from the initial 410Bhp for reliability reasons) Boost was 1.1 bar (also down from 1.5Bar)

Cheers

Pete

 

[supersport]

Pete,

Thanks for that, pretty black and white I would say, just what I needed.

Mark.

 

[supersport]

So apart from the 924 with a 944 engine, where there are any other 944s running in any Le Mans 24 hour races?

 

[burrow01]

Hi,

Full Le Mans results are here - http://www.formula2.net/http://www.formula2.net/ The closest I can see to a 944 running is - in 1994 DNF from Seikel Motorsport, D - Porsche 968 Turbo RS

Pete

 

[supersport]

Pete,

I saw that site too and searched from 81-96 and couldn't find any 944s in the lists. So that answers all my questions.

Mark.

 

[random hero]

ORIGINAL: burrow01

Hi

According the Norbert Singer in 24/16 the 944 engine was installed into the 924 GTR chassis and entered into the 1981 Le Mans as a 924 GT Prototype as the 944 had not yet been publicly announced - it came seventh overall, driven by Jurgen Barth and Walter Rohrl.
Power output was 370Bhp (down from the initial 410Bhp for reliability reasons) Boost was 1.1 bar (also down from 1.5Bar)

Cheers

Pete

Ive got pretty much the the same story in one of my books except it says that the car was 944 twin cam turbo disguised as a 924 GTP (is this a miss print should it be R) rather than actually being one !!

 

[Hilux]

I cannot find any photos on the web but I`m positieve I watched Canon sponsored 944`s at Brands and silverstone 6 hr races in the early 80`s. They may have been privateer 924 GTR`s but they were definitely sponsored by Canon

I`ve got the photos somewhere....................


OOOps...they were 924 GTR`s

 

[Diver944]

Lots of pics of the 924 Le Mans cars including the Canon car in this Rennlist thread:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=292026&highlight=Boss+gtp

I wonder where they are now and if we'll ever see one at the classic Le Mans when they become eligible

 

[wjk_glynn]

ORIGINAL: Mark Bennett
If I recall, there were 3 924's entered, but one had the prototype 944 engine in it - is that the one you mean?

5 were entered, but only 3 qualified. One of those 3 was the 924 GTP with the prototype 944 engine.

ORIGINAL: burrow01
According the Norbert Singer ...Power output was 370Bhp (down from the initial 410Bhp for reliability reasons) Boost was 1.1 bar (also down from 1.5Bar)

I'm very curious to hear more. Can you confirm that Singer said the 944-engined 924 GTP developed 370-bhp at Le Mans? Is there any chance he was referring to the other 924s (whose 2.0-liter audi based engines did develop around 370-bhp in Le Mans trim)?

The reason I ask is that all the other literature I've seen on this subject (e.g. "Porsche: Excellence Was Expected" by Karl Ludvigsen, "Who's The Boss" by Patrick C. Paternie in Excellence Magazine May-2002) said race trim was 420-bhp at 1.1-bar, down from 510-bhp at 1.5-bar. At 1.5-bar, (as you mentioned) it didn't have the legs to last 24-hours, hence the reduced boost at Le Mans.

I'm very curious to hear what Singer had to say...

ORIGINAL: supersport
I saw that site too and searched from 81-96 and couldn't find any 944s in the lists. So that answers all my questions.

For details on the 924s at Le Mans (including the 924 GTP), see:

Entry List - http://histoire.lemans.org/ACO/Year/searchengages.php3?lg=eng&s=d&recherche=1981
Qualifying - http://histoire.lemans.org/ACO/Year/searchclassqualif.php3?lg=eng&s=d&recherche=1981
Final Standings - http://histoire.lemans.org/ACO/Year/searchclassfin.php3?lg=eng&s=d&recherche=1981

Karl.

 

[burrow01]

Hi,

Quoting from 24/16 by Norbert Singer:

"All we could do in the time available was to reduce the turbo "boost" and cut the engine speed, and to our great surprise the 944 raced well at Le Mans, and Barth and Rohrl finished in seventh place overall. We had to cut the power from 410bhp initially to about 370bhp, reducing the boost from 1.5 to 1.1 bar"

He does refer to the car as a 944, although he also says that it was a 924 GTR chassis with a 944 2.5 engine and 14" wheels

Pete

 

[Guest]

What i gather, from different books and by reading between the lines, the cars entered into the '81 le-mans were 944's but were officially entered as 24's because of the homologations and rulings saying you have to have built 'x' amount of cars before entering a race. Porsche hadn't built any, never mind the 200 ( or whatever) required so they just put it down as a 924.
You know you are about to replace the 924, so what better way to advertise the new car than in a high prestige race. The 944 races at le-mans in '81, and in '82 you can actually own a le-mans race car. Co-incidence or a brilliant piece of marketing?

So my two penneth worth is, the car was officially entered as a '24 but was really a '44.

 

[Hilux]

So my two penneth worth is, the car was officially entered as a '24 but was really a '44.

That was my reckoning as I read it somewher at the time but I wasnt confident enough to state it. The 924 GTR was a race development for the forthcoming 944. Bloody quick too...........................mental note to find the photos

 

[burrow01]

In the book, Norbert refers to the car as the 944, but definately says that it was a 2.5ltr 944 engine installed into a 924 GTR Chassis, with the addition of 14" wheels.

I suppose in depends on what you class as a 944 [] In racing trim, with wide plastic arches and racing instruments what would be the differences between a 924 and a 944?

The classification could also depend on whether they built a new chassis for the car, or used an existing 924 chassis

Pete

 

[wjk_glynn]

ORIGINAL: burrow01

Hi,

Quoting from 24/16 by Norbert Singer:

"All we could do in the time available was to reduce the turbo "boost" and cut the engine speed, and to our great surprise the 944 raced well at Le Mans, and Barth and Rohrl finished in seventh place overall. We had to cut the power from 410bhp initially to about 370bhp, reducing the boost from 1.5 to 1.1 bar"

He does refer to the car as a 944, although he also says that it was a 924 GTR chassis with a 944 2.5 engine and 14" wheels

Pete

Thanks Pete.

Did he mention anything about switching from Kugelfischer mechanical fuel injection to an early version of Bosch electronic fuel injection for Le Mans? I've read that was done to improve fuel efficiency in that race.

Karl.

 

[wjk_glynn]

ORIGINAL: Darren
So my two penneth worth is, the car was officially entered as a '24 but was really a '44.

I'm on the fence on that one...

On the one hand, the only significant difference between it and the other four 924s entered was its engine -- which tells me its also a 924

But on the other hand, Porsche raced it specifically to help market launch the 944 which was announced to the public not long after the race -- which makes it a 944

Karl.

 

[burrow01]

ORIGINAL: wjk_glynn

Thanks Pete.

Did he mention anything about switching from Kugelfischer mechanical fuel injection to an early version of Bosch electronic fuel injection for Le Mans? I've read that was done to improve fuel efficiency in that race.

Karl.

I'll check - There are about two pages right next to the description of the 924/944 programme that refer to working with Bosch on EFI, but I cannot remember which model he refers to - I'm away at the moment, but should be able to look this evening

Cheers

Pete