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944 S2 - Clutch Options

Andy Duncan

Andy Duncan

New member
I'd be interested in any opinions the group may have on clutch options for an 944S2.

Does anyone know if there are any recommended upgrades or competition grade parts that may be suitable for the S2. The standard clutch friction plate has an integral damper which is not ideal for sustained track work.

The Turbo clutch components are completely different. Is there a similar set up available for the S2.

I'd appreciate your comments

andy
 
Andrew,
thanks for your speedy reply, I assume the standard flywheel is compatible with the stage 1&2 kits, is the friction plate a centre spring affair?

I have the engine out and the clutch was disassembled for a routine check prior to next seasons Club Championship.

The rubber damper configuration threw me and I feel is a potential weak point in the drive train. Do you have pictures of your kits. What's the difference between the 2 options.

I can't make the weekend unfortunately (I was at your new place launch earlier this year) would have been useful for a chat.
thanks
andy duncan
 
ORIGINAL: racerhead

The rubber damper configuration threw me and I feel is a potential weak point in the drive train. Do you have pictures of your kits. What's the difference between the 2 options.
Click to expand...

Hi Andy,

That is the original clutch design which I believe is no longer available due to it being a weak point I should imagine. The new clutchs have springs rather than a rubber damper. The Sachs replacement clutch kits are available from Bert at Berlyn Services - http://www.berlyn-services.co.uk.

I had mine replaced in September last year as the original rubber damper had disentigrated.

Cheers

Dave K.
 
I would expect Stage 1 and 2 to be fine for the road. I have a stage 3 in my Turbo and it is too much for the road, but it's a paddle clutch so not a total surprise. It isn't heavy though, it just judders. A few extra revs calms it down.
 
I dont like to do this BUT[8|]

Ive got a SPEC ST 1 kit fitted to my S2 ..
+
I definately WOULDNT have it again....[:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:]

Its a real pain for everyday use... Judders etc etc etc...[:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:]
Its great on track . + yes it does have a greater clamping force....
No difference in the pedal "weight" / pressure...
I was told that it wouldnt be much different to the original one BUT its WAY different.....[:mad:][:mad:][:mad:]

In fact its that anoying , im thinking about removing it + fitting a "standard" one back in....
Anybody want a "slightly" used SPEC 1 clutch kit ....?????? Its only done 2-3000 miles....max.....

Sorry Andrew.....
 
That's interesting. If a stage 1 judders then why not get a stage 3 - I mean obviously you don't want judder. What I mean is why would one go for stage 1 (or 2) if they judder when a stage 3 judders also but have less "capacity".[FONT=verdana,geneva"] [FONT=verdana,geneva"]Is your judder just annoying as my 306 (original clutch) occasionally does and I put down to asbestos-free linings or does it judder so badly that you feel you might be able to get the gearbox to drop out like my Turbo would if I let it?[FONT=verdana,geneva"]
 
Fen
When i had it fitted it seemed like it wanted to RIP the gearbox off its mountings..[:mad:]
Its actually bedded in a bit now ,, but its still unpleasant...
Ive got to rev the engine to aprox 2000 rpm to get it off the line without judder...Its unpleasant round town...+ i do use the car for work "sometimes"...
When i asked Lindsey racing about it "b4 i bought" he said it would be just like a normal clutch....How wrong was he.?????[:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:]..
I didnt get much "change" from him when i mentioned it after fitting....He just said "oh itl bed in over time"...Im still waiting......
As you might be able to tell ,, im not too impesed with Both Spec or Lindsey racing.......

Ps this isnt the first time ive heard somebody say bad things about SPEC stuff....Just take a visit to the rennlist archives.....

Although its great on the track....
So i guess the moral of this story is ,, great if you want one in a track car... but not so good in a street car with occasional track use....
 
Sounds just like mine then, although it isn't bedding in at all. At least I can live with it because I went paddle and was half expecting it to be a pain. I was pleasantly surprised by the weight of the pedal in fact. I think I only need 1,500 rpm or so to make it smooth too, which is actually not that difficult to do. My biggest problem is that I find the pedals spaced badly for heel and toe, but I (hope I) have a solution for that and will post pics after the weekend.
 
Guess who's been busy then? Sorry I haven't dived in earlier.

I have a Spec Stage 2 (which Andrew got for me at a very good rate) but I haven't had a chance to put any real miles on it yet.

My Inde commented how nicely it was made, perhaps one of the best made clutch assemblies they had seen.... apparently. He then said "What are you going to do next to make the car less drivable?"

There is no obvious increase in pedal pressure on the Stage 2 over the original. I haven't had the opportunity to test the clamp pressure but the original was pretty useless and got smoked on a good few occasions, as well as bouncing at least once.

The new clutch is difficult to modulate and can be a bit juddery - but then it is new, with a new fly wheel, so this may reduce once it has been worn in a bit. That said, even in its current form, you can still live with it.

As noted, I also had a lightened flywheel fitted (from Lindsey Racing via Andrew) and would certainly recommend that as course of action while doing the clutch. The difference is very subtle but the car just seems that much more alive. It does rev more freely, but not in a Japanese way, just with more enthusiasm.
 
GET SOME MILES ON IT JOHN and then let me know if it beds in any more [:)]

I'm going to plump for a SPEC2 from Andrew when mine is all put back together, so Daves post really gave me the jitters. I do want the car to be nicely driveable, but appreciate that with all the torque I'll have, I will need extra clamping pressure [:eek:]
 
ORIGINAL: Diver944

GET SOME MILES ON IT JOHN....................
Click to expand...

I would do but, in common with several people here, others seem to be seeing far more of my car than I am at the moment.

Granted not having the car at home is currently an advantage as Beaky's new house is still under construction. He is back at the menders after, having had all the bottom off to cure an oil leak, he has an oil leak. I can't tell if it is a different (new) leak or a leak that was there previously but disguised by the original leak. Suffice to say the inlet manifold has now come off and a new froth tower fitted.
 
Good input as expected chaps. Andrew thanks for yours also, Spec is a bit pricey though.

I've heard that Luk do an uprated assembly for the 944S2, anybody using this system.

The Turbo clutch diameter is bigger than the S2, has anyone coverted an S2 to run the turbo assembly, is the turbo flywheel compatible with the S2 engine?

Just think that the bigger surface of the Turbo may provide better performance on a track prepared S2!

andy
 
My indie reckons that my Turbo flywheel and clutch will work if I go with a 3.0 bottom end, so that means he thinks they are compatible. I don't know if you need the Turbo bellhousing, slave cylinder etc. or not though.
 
Andy
Im not too sure if the turbo flywheel will work.. Ive been told that the S2 has sensors on it to make the engine run correctly.. + im not sure IF the turbo has these.???
BUT you will need a turbo belhousing etc as the fly + clutch are as you say bigger...
Also,, not too sure if you will need a turbo torque tube ,as the splines may also be different...BUT dont quote me on that...
I posted just this question on Rennlist some months ago.. BUT didnt get too many constructive answers...
Thats why i didnt go down this very route myself...
 
Very good point, the Turbo and S2 use totally different crank triggering. I get away from that because I run standalone EMS, hence not being an issue for me if I go that route.[FONT=verdana,geneva"]
 
Explains a few things now, I knew the torque tube was different, but not the bell housing, I assume Turbo bell will not fit the S2 then or will it? The S2 pressure plate is deeper is it not to contain the rubber damper......................proper upgrade is definitely the way to go.

FYI, As regards starts off the grid, I've always used around 2000rpm when dropping the clutch as any more than this usually affects traction (std clutch assembly using Quaif LSD).

A fine balance is needed with the 944, this is one of the areas where the 911's have an advantage, more weight over the rear wheels gives significantly better traction during race starts.

I'm now keen to see what improvement off the line can be achieved with a more robust clutch assembly!

andy
 
If the standard clutch isn't slipping (other than loosing the rubber damper) What is the benefit of upgrading?
Tony
 
Tony,
the standard unit is not really robust enough for track use. Uprated assemblies give better gearchange performance when the car is being driven hard, remember greater forces are being exerted on all components .

I am prepared to trade low end driveability for better high end performance. In respect of track work, the rubber damper is a weak point in the system and it won't take much abuse.
andy
 
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