944 S2 Susepension rebuild

[Stu Alderson]

Today my 89 944S2 passed its MOT, which was a very nice suprise as I have long suspected the fron suspenion could do with a overall. This was cofirmed after the MOT when speaking with the technician he mentioned that it was tired and by the time next years was due it would require a complete overhaul. Hence a couple of question's which someone may be able to enlighen me on.

1. As far as I am aware the S2 Control arms/Wishbones are effectively a sealed for life item with no user replaceable parts.
(this seems to be at odds with Pelican and Paragon who offer bushes and ball joint kits for these arms - are there any UK manufacturers/importers of such parts?) or do I purchase a lathe for the cost of oneside and produce spacers & bushes myself?

2. What is the view of other owners to what constitutes a full suspension overhall, approx time to complete without workshop facilities, or even if it is feasable without a pit/ramp?

3. As the car is not intended for any track day use, the views regarding poly or delrin replacements?

4.Harping back to a previous post on what does membership give me? Does PCGB actively support aftermarket suppliers in providing refurbished or replacements for either parts no longer available, or due to the design (vis a vis lower wishbones) a very expensive service item. (c£380/side while bush kits for the earlier models are c£20!!)

Apologies in advance for the ramblings, and the fact that nobody ever said owning a Porsche was going to be cheap!!

Stuart

 

[John Sims]

You can rebuild the ball joints on the ally wishbones - Google Renbay also some UK companies do reengineered wishbones on exchange.

Standard and upgraded struts are available for the 944 still. Try your OPC for a bench mark (and take off 10% for PCGB members []) you can also try German & European Car Parts etc. If you want the best currently available for a 944 Google KW suspension - K300 and ProMax will give you good prices and with up to 15% off from K300 for PCGB members.

Don't use delrin bushes for anything other than a track car. The transfer of road shocks from our rough roads will do all manner of damage.

If you are removing the wishbones you will need the suspension geometry resetting so there is little advantage in doing the job yourself. Either way, with the correct tools, it isn't a massive job so won't take a proffessional long to do it. Some jobs just aren't worth the hassle. []

 

[TTM]

In case you already didn't know about it, ball joints are sealed on 968 wishbones only, and are not at easy to rebuild as 944 wishbones.
968 wishbones being the replacement part for 944 wishbones, some cars happened to have been fitted with these at some point, and you may want to check if yours are still 944 or 968 units before ordering the ball joint rebuild kit.

 

[zcacogp]

Stu,

As already said - your car has balljoints which should be replaced professionally. I think that Hartech (www.hartech.org) do re-engineered wishbones, and want to say they are £150 per side *. I am told you can buy DIY-rebuild kits but they seem to fail very early, and the extra cost of a professional job is well worth it in the long run. (Early cars had pressed steel wishbones which had balljoints which bolted onto the end. Those can be easily replaced by a good DIY'er.)

Our view as to what constitutes a full suspension overhaul? How long is a piece of string! I replaced all the shocks on my S2 about 18 months ago. I also replaced the ARB bushes and the steering tie rod ends. I'm not sure whether this is a full overhaul or not, but it transformed the car. I used the Koni items, from Proven Products, as it was the cheapest option (even cheaper than OE parts) and did the work myself. The whole lot was done by the side of the road (I don't have a workshop), with a couple of jacks and axle stands, in a (long) day. None of it is difficult, but access to a bench and engineering vice is helpful for the ARB bushes.

I also had the geometry done, and personally think that getting the geometry right made more difference to the way the car behaved than changing the shock absorbers (if you count improvement per £ spent this is certainly the case.) You will need to do the geometry if you change the front suspension or the wishbones. Being a dedicated DIY-er, I'd disagree with John and say it is worth the hassle of doing it yourself, but each to their own! []

Prices. Things have gone up a LOT recently. I paid a little over £100 per corner for the koni items when I bought them, but they seem to be fiendishly much more expensive now. Shop around and see what you find. One thing I did find was that KW's are more expensive mainly because people get them fitted (rather than DIY-ing), because fitting them involves re-indexing the rear torsion bar, which is a BIG job. If you can afford it, it sounds like the KW's are the way to go, but they are not cheap.


Oli.

ETA: * - It's exchange, so they send you some re-engineered wishbones and you swap them for the worn ones on your car, and post your old ones back to them, whereupon they give you some money back. Cost is about £150 once you have had the discount.

 

[Stu Alderson]

Thanks all for you input, as far as I am aware my wishbones are still originall S2 type and no upgrade has been carried out. Infact, I am a little suprised that they have lasted the 188k the car has done without attention. Perhaps it does say something for porsche quality control and build standards.

What I have been looking at is the following:

Elephant Racing ERMP-2201700 Weather-Sealed Control Arm Front Monoball Cartridge Set, 944/968 (1985-95)
(My racing/rallying days are long past and wondered if they would be to severe for a road car)

anf,

Aluminum A-Arm Ball Joint Repair Kit (pair), 944/944S2 (1986-91) PEL-915957

Both of the above are available from Pelican, and by my calculation, even considering the exchange rates, this would be a much cheaper option.

Though considering the favourable comments regarding the Hartech replacements, I may even consider this as an option. Its purely down the satisfaction of doing the job yourself and overcoming, what I consider a design fault in the original equipment/strategy. i.e. are they really that much better than the 924 Turbo arms? lighter maybe, but strength, repairability etc I don't think so.

I take on board all that is said about the geometry, and would take that as read for any major suspension works.

But once again thanks for your thoughts. Oli are you going to Ace Cafe meeting?

Kind regards

Stu

 

[Big Dave]

Ask yourself, just what you are going to use the car for.???
If its just road use, then DONT fit the solid E racing monoballs, theyl shake your teeth out...
Just fit standard ones or poss poly bush them...
I have solid bushed my car. GREAT / FAB on track, NOT too great on road as it tramlines + crashes around everywhere....
Theres no such thing as a "duel purpose" car...
Visit Hartech for the refurbed wishbones.. They supply a lot of the other aftermarket retailers with them...

 

[Stu Alderson]

BigD thanks for the comments.... not going to be a dual purpose car at well passed 60 I have done all the racing and rallying I want to ... if I want to go FAST I will take the 8 series around the 'ring again ... (seems to becoming an annual event).

What I am looking for is something which is useable on the road as a daily hack, but can also be used for "spirited" driving as an when the occasion arises.

ohhh to be young again..

Stuart

 

[James_G]

Stuart

I found myself in a similar situation last year re balljoints and went down the hartech route. I was dreading doing the job myself but in actual fact it was wonderfully simple. I think partly because everything is so big you don't end up in a world of rounded off bolts. So if you have some jack stands and a little experience you'll be fine. I posted about it at the time, but I haven't had the chance to look for the link.

I also don't agree with the comment that you need your suspension re-aligned afterwards. As long as you are just replacing the arms and not the castor mounts, then you can keep everything as it is, and nothing should move. However I will temper that with the fact that like others here, having the alignment done correctly makes a huge difference on our cars, as does changing the castor mounts to the later more solid type.

Since then I have done a number of track days and have had no problems. I have no experience of rebuilding kits but I was put of when I heard they generally failed too regularly.

I'm now trying to decide between OEM shocks or the GAZ offering from EMC. Decisons, decisons.