944 Turbo as a track day tool?

[Andy97]

I have been considering a 968CS because I want to do a few track days. However, there does not appear to be many for sale with the desirable MO30 set up at a price that I want to pay!
However, I have been offered a 944 Turbo in Silver Rose spec - 250 bhp, MO30 (apart from the adjustable Konis), LSD, and the usual interior - leather sports seats, air con etc. Its got low miles and is at a decent price. What does anyone think of this as a track day tool? Sure the car is a bit heavier (any guesses? 100Kg-150Kg??) but it will be used on the road as well and I might only do half a dozen track days a year, so at less than half the price of a 968CS is this a reasonable compromise?
Perhaps I can take the interior out to lighten things a bit?
Perhaps I can use the cash saved to do more track days!
Any thoughts?

 

[Guest]

The 944 (and especially the Turbo) makes an excellent track day tool. Go to any track day, and you'll very likely see more 944s than any other single type of car.

They're perfect for track days. They handle well, they have adequate power as standard, you can tune the nadgers off them if you want to, and they're dirt cheap.

It's hard to think of a better car for track days on a budget.

 

[Peter Empson]

I dont think its that much heavier (although the published figures do seem rather misleading), but it would be very easy to seriously lighten the turbo anyway, just put some bucket seats in and get rid of the rears and you've already made a worthwhile saving. Getting rid of the aircon should save quite a bit too (I'm sure Fen can elaborate on this).

So I'd agree with James, I'm sure you wouldn't regret going for it.
Best regards,
Peter

 

[Fen]

I doubt it's signficantly heavier than a 968 CS. The CS was heavier than the 944 S2 and the Turbo doesn't have a huge amount of extra kit.

I have said before, pretty much in these terms, that I just don't see the point of paying extra for a 968. With even an M030 CS you get a car with virtually no scope to make more power (short of a £5k supercharger), tired and not very modern suspension with limited adjustment, poor (by which I mean heavy and not very supportive) bucket seats, the same brakes as a Turbo and all unnecessary toys already removed yet still weighing more than an S2 with all the kit still in it. For twice the price of the 944. Bargain!

Get a Turbo, take out the seats and fit a pair of decent buckets that weigh circa 7kg each rather than the reported 15kg of the CS ones. Also remove all the unnecessary electrics the CS did without (mirrors, locking, rear wiper, hatch release) and the air-con and you now have a lighter car with the same brakes and more power. Spend some of the money you saved not buying a CS on KW suspension and some more on a wastegate and chip and you'll have a better handling, lighter, cheaper car with circa 275bhp. Turbo power delivery is fine for the track, and if it still isn't quick enough for you then spend some more of the money you saved on a bigger turbo etc. to go still faster.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Fen

I doubt it's signficantly heavier than a 968 CS. The CS was heavier than the 944 S2 and the Turbo doesn't have a huge amount of extra kit.

I have said before, pretty much in these terms, that I just don't see the point of paying extra for a 968. With even an M030 CS you get a car with virtually no scope to make more power (short of a £5k supercharger), tired and not very modern suspension with limited adjustment, poor (by which I mean heavy and not very supportive) bucket seats, the same brakes as a Turbo and all unnecessary toys already removed yet still weighing more than an S2 with all the kit still in it. For twice the price of the 944. Bargain!

Get a Turbo, take out the seats and fit a pair of decent buckets that weigh circa 7kg each rather than the reported 15kg of the CS ones. Also remove all the unnecessary electrics the CS did without (mirrors, locking, rear wiper, hatch release) and the air-con and you now have a lighter car with the same brakes and more power. Spend some of the money you saved not buying a CS on KW suspension and some more on a wastegate and chip and you'll have a better handling, lighter, cheaper car with circa 275bhp. Turbo power delivery is fine for the track, and if it still isn't quick enough for you then spend some more of the money you saved on a bigger turbo etc. to go still faster.

Or just buy a standard Turbo and have fun with it []

You don't have to play with your track car. Although you do tend to creep towards that direction as you do more and more track days.[8D]

 

[Diver944]

Fantastic (and cheap) trackday tool.

As for weight, the books list the 250 Turbo at 1400kg and the 968CS at 1335kg, so only 65kg difference. Take out the leather armchairs (50kg), rear seat back (16kg), and boot carpet (4kg) and fit some proper lightweight bucket seats (14kg) and you will be on a par weight wise.

See how you go like that for a while and then if you want to sink some money in to the engine, you can see 300bhp for around a thousand. I've done about 20 track days in mine at about 280bhp and on slick tyres the car is super fast and plenty of fun. You will not have to get out of the way of many other cars []

 

[Davyboy]

290bhp and 299 torques []
968 M030
Job done
<------ that car there []

 

[Andy97]

All good useful replies, although the fact that this is the 944 forum might have slanted things a bit!! Perhaps I'll ask the 968 crowd what they think??!!

 

[Diver944]

Us biased - never []

Drat - I wish I'd replied on Pistonheads or Tipec where I saw your other posts

 

[Fen]

Yes, it's a biased view I guess, but it uses facts rather than anything subjective: The 944 is cheaper than the 968, while being largely the same car. The Turbo is tunable while the 968 (and S2 to be fair) is not.

I think most of the 968 guys bought their car at least partially on looks and perceived modernity. If that matters to you in a track car then that's fine as it's your money, but purely in terms of the things that matter to how the cars work as track tools they are virtually the same. Most of the 968 guys who use the cars on track have non- M030 models and immediately set about fitting KW suspension and the bigger brakes from the M030 cars that the Turbo already has - there is nothing that bolts on to the chassis of a 968 that doesn't fit a late 944 and you save more than enough money to fit the handful of things a CS with M030 has that the Turbo didn't (17" Cup wheels, rear coils over the dampers, thicker and adjustable at rear ARBs, better castor mounts and redesigned brake cooling ducting). I'd seriously suggest that unless you find a 968 M030 that has just recently had the suspension rebuilt you'd be well advised to consider it needs a fresh set of dampers in any case and modern kits like the KW one outperform the M030 Koni suspension anyway. Lastly it will be easier to find a Turbo as while they are not exactly on every street corner they are much more plentiful than 968 CS M030 cars.

 

[944Turbo]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Fantastic (and cheap) trackday tool.

As for weight, the books list the 250 Turbo at 1400kg and the 968CS at 1335kg, so only 65kg difference. Take out the leather armchairs (50kg), rear seat back (16kg), and boot carpet (4kg) and fit some proper lightweight bucket seats (14kg) and you will be on a par weight wise.

See how you go like that for a while and then if you want to sink some money in to the engine, you can see 300bhp for around a thousand. I've done about 20 track days in mine at about 280bhp and on slick tyres the car is super fast and plenty of fun. You will not have to get out of the way of many other cars []

Dont forget the rear wiper motor, next to useless without wash and rain-x will do the job for you.
Tony

 

[sawood12]

If you're going to use the car on the road as well and intend to cover any signifcant road milage I would keep the A/C as the car gets bloomin' hot on sunny days. It's not fun sat in a traffic jam with the sun beaming down through that large glass rear hatch sat in leather seats.

I've only had one outing on the track in mine and it was a superb handling car. The instructor that was sat in with me was certainly impressed with the cars handling and pace - although i'm sure my drving wasn't overly impressing him!! But he did say I made significant improvement over the session I had with him. A fantastic day out!

 

[333pg333]

I would agree with everyone else here too. As Fen said if nothing else, just update the suspension as the standard stuff is really not good enough for the track. I've got the full Mo30 in mine and I'm selling it all off as it's not really suited to the track in my opinion. Good autobahn setup. Also you guys can get mods like chips, dual port wastegates, wheels and tyres for a song compared to us down under so you can have a great track car that is streetable for a ridiculously small amount. Go for it, you'll be really glad with a turbo over a n/a car. Be prepared for addiction to the boost!!!

 

[Indi9xx]

We work on all models of Porsche. From GT3's through to 924's and to be honest the 944 Turbo is probably the best track day toy, especially if you start tuning it and lightening it.

We have built several 944turbo and 968turbo dedicated race cars, and each one of them can run rings around the competition on the track.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: Andy97

Perhaps I'll ask the 968 crowd what they think??!!

How's your thought process going Andy? Have you tested any yet to compare?