944 turbo

[pauljmcnulty]

Turbos seem to fit into three categories to me. Original and well cared for beauties, carefully uprated road and track cars, and cheap ones. Strangely enough, two of these categories seem to be more economical in the long run. [8|]

 

[dann944]

i'm guessing its not the cheap ones

 

[Copperman05]

Would it not be wiser to just get the best 944 you can afford, whether that be a lux, S/S2 or whatever? By all means go for a good Turbo if you can afford it otherwise you could find yourself experiencing some form of deja vu? Edd

 

[dann944]

Ok i'm on the hunt for a turbo

is there anything i should know about these cars and what to look for in terms of problems, strange sound etc

Cheers Dann

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Would it not be wiser to just get the best 944 you can afford,

I guess it's back to what you want from the car. I've learnt that there's a huge difference between the 8-valve cars and an S2, I'd imagine a turbo is different again. Whatever you're after, they are so cheap that it's easy to buy any 944 varient at the moment. More tricky is getting one that'll not put you back in the position of an unfinished project. As always, set aside at least £1K above purchase price. At least £1500 would be more realistic as first-year expenses for a turbo I'd suggest. And that's one without obvious issues.

 

[PSH]

Most things you'll already know after all it's a 944 but some things to check.... Oil , make sure it feels good and looks reasonably clean, turbo oil is changed twice as often as normally aspirated cars , or at least it should be. Take it for a drive and see how it pulls , it should be strong , boost should build up quickly to .85bar on a 250 or quicker still on a 220 car to around 0.75bar. On the factory gauge this will read 1.85 and 1.75 bar respectively IIRC. Is there any smoke? blue,white, grey or black and if so when does it show, the reasons for smoke are many and you'd need to check the car over for anyone of these before being able to assertain the cause, some may be simple and others expensive so be warned. Check the header tank for any signs of contamination, turbo's are renowned for gasket failure especially on cylinder No.4 , it gets very hot there and also theres a design flaw that allows a steam buildup which blocks the flow with resulting gasket failure( not sure if i've explained that bit well enough but trust me it exists). These cars are 20 plus years old now and so seals will be breaking down, on a turbo this may mean the turbo seal is letting oil through this may show more on idle than heavy boost as back pressure under boost helps to seal. There's a 30 sec water pump that continues to operate after ignition switched off , check to see if this is working , if it isn't and the owner has not let the turbo spool down after use then the bearing may be carboned up and close to failure. As with all 944's body work and chassis condition is in effect more important than mechanicals, of course it can go to far but don't choose a shabby car with what seems better history or mechanicals over a well looked after car with good paintwork/panels/chassis that may have an issue that needs sorting... smoking turbo for instance?( £350 will get the turbo as good as new again) You may struggle to find a standard turbo, don't be put of with this though , these engines are very, very strong, but check who did the work and how long ago, if it was done some years ago then you'll probably find it's safe if for no other reason than the cars still running... Well hope this helps a little , feel free to give me a call on the number in my sig if you find yourself in front of a car that may or may not have a problem. best of luck Pete

 

[dann944]

does a widefire gasket sort the overheating problem??

 

[sawood12]

I wouldn't say that there is any weakness in the engine of a turbo on the contrary, they are pretty bulletproof if well looked after. The thing about #4 cylinder is true but is usually attributed to poor bleeding of the engine coolant as there is a natural air-trap around cyl #4. If you bleed the engine properly then there is no increased risk. You should approach a potential purchase of a turbo in exactly the same way as any other 944 - with caution. The engines on turbo's are pretty tough and this is borne out by many people running significantly increased levels of boost perfectly reliably at upto 350bhp on essentially a stock engine and by the number of people tracking them reliably. You should be more concerned about getting a car with good sills and the usual bodywork areas (as you unfortunately all too well know!). Clearly if the car is smoking like a chain smoker on a stressful day then steer clear - as you would with any car whether it be a turbo or not. You can't judge how good a car is by how much the seller wants for it either. The best way to minimise the risks of buying a dog is to look for history - the more the better, anything that can indicate that the previous owners have treated the car as it should be treated. If you can find a car that has a full service history and other invoices/receipts to back up that work has been carried out when necessary then that all indicates the car has been cared for. If you want to take a risk on a cheap turbo then fine, but you'll need to have money set asside, so if you can afford to have money set asside then why buy a cheap car over a slightly more expensive one with good history and in better nick? But for me the turbo is a superb model. The old school power delivery makes for an interesting drive and provides another dimension and the pace when on boost is exhilarating. All adds to the charm. I'll be sorry to see mine go.

 

[dann944]

i think my absolute top budget would be around 5-6k i'm confident i can get a structurally sound version for that, but im not going to rush into it (honest) []

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: dann944 does a widefire gasket sort the overheating problem??

No I've had the Lindsey racing steam vent kit fitted into the head to fix that issue.

 

[sawood12]

The steam vent kit does the work but requires a hole drilling in the cylinder head. It is basically a line routed from the cylinder head at the high point of the water jacket were any air will accumulate so it can vent via the hose back into the expansion tank. However if you vent the cooling system properly this is not a risk. Widefire HG is just an alternative for a stock HG. There are some who believe it is better but the reality is there is nothing wrong with the stock HG.

 

[PSH]

As stated by edh , you need the steam vent kit to totally remove the issue with No.4 cylinder, this is the info from Lindsey Racing. quote: "The 8 valve cylinder head has an air pocket or cavity in the rear of the head that traps the air and cannot remove this air on it's own. This air pocket is located on the number 4 combustion chamber and since the engine coolant cannot enter the pocket because of the trapped air, the aluminum overheats, causing it to expand and overcrush the head gasket. " Also as edh says the widefire or indeed the cometic head gaskets will not remove this flaw but it's not really too big a problem for standard cars , what the above gaskets will do is allow a higher than normal boost to be used without the risk of gasket failure. Now you can also install raceware head studs to stop gasket failure too but there are two mind sets involved here. You see in bolting the head down so securely you take away a safety feature in as the next thing to go will be the block itself, so personally i have stayed away from race studding , i have had two gaskets go over the years( although never a cometic) and I'm very glad I didn't go the raceware route as I may have had to get a new engine by now[] At the end of the day it will be your choice what you do and the more you tinker with a turbo the more you will learn and thus able to make an educated decision of your own... Pete Pete

 

[dann944]

Just out of interest how many miles have you done, ive been offered one with 180k on the clock....

 

[PSH]

these cars eat up miles so don't worry about what may seem high mileage. all porsches last.... mine has done 189k and will out live me i'm sure. She's not perfect.. i need to change some oil seals which i'll do when i can . BTW when i bought her more than 11 years ago she was advertised as the best in the country..( no kidding)... but i think those who know her will agree she is one of the better examples around...[]... oh and she's won concours and Porsche offered to buy her off me.... no chance , she's all mine....[][]

 

[dann944]

is there alot of work and labour involved in the steam kit?

 

[PSH]

in as far as you need to take the head off then yes, but I wouldn't worry about the steam kit, what scott says is true to some extent in as if bled properly the risks are lower, but there will always be an air pocket there no matter what you do. I do not have the steam kit on my car , I'm running at 21psi and and I drive hard. I have blown two gaskets in the last 11 years , both at No.4 cylinder , one was because the gasket was original and the other was too much boost/compression with a new widefire gasket very soon after trying ametech... boy does that stuff increase compression...lol Anyway since I fitted the cometic gasket and in fact increased boost from 19psi to 21 psi I have had no problems... as i said before you learn as you timker. To be honest I have no idea how the car will do on the dyno saturday as it is running the higher boost plus it now has the magic of an Apexi which holds the boost without letting off to the red line... it will be an interesting day. But hey I have full breakdown cover and I really do need an excuse to remove the engine to fix and tweek it a little more....[]

 

[dann944]

oh i see, well hopefully ill be able to find an unmolested standard car,

 

[edh]

you might be disappointed by a "standard" car - "molested" ones are much more fun [] Seriously - cars with minor boost mods give you a much more satisfying midrange, with earlier spool up & more torque. I would have thought that most turbos these days would br running with a boost enhancer or something similar.

 

[sawood12]

A standard car will have a cream crackered wastegate for sure, mine did. Then you'll want a DPW, then you'll want a whole host of other things and that is the slippery slidy slope!! 180k is nothing on these cars if well looked after.

 

[Fat Albert]

Mine has 196k on it (bought with 194k) and is midly tweaked (cone air filter, boost enhancer and dump valve) At the service 3 minor oil leaks were identified but was told not to worry about them as they are very minor currently. A friend (ex 968 and 'Grale owner) has just traded down from a 993 to an '06 Scooby WRX and I let him have a blast. Mine felt much stronger in the mid-range than the Scoob, but overall the numbers seemed to be appearing at about the same rate. He could tell that the 951 was older than the scoob, but it didn't feel like 21 years....then of course you look at how much I paid for it and it seems remarkable value[]