944s and s2 balljoits (shatterd or worn)

[rob944s]

Hi just me again, I have stumbled accross a website www.design@911.com and i was wondering if anyone has bought a bottom ball joint for a 87 onward 944, 944s or 944s2 from this company, i have spoke to these people and thay say it`s the same balljoint. in a previouse thread i asked if i could buy the balljoint seperatly and spoke to a few diffrent people and it was apparent that i had to buy the whole wishbone complete with the ball joint allready installed at a cost of around £150 from rennbay as this was the cheapest option. I am now wondering after speaking to this firm who sell the ball joint for £39.50 if A, it`s the right one. and B, do i need any specialist tools to fit it, and C, maybe is this better than a leda part! now i hear they have gone pop thats if leda made this part in the first place as i am not sure. D, peter, sorry to hear about what happend at brands, maybe you can advise more, ps have you got anything in granite white as the york stone does`nt go with my patio table but willing to strike a deal for a decent size bag, bad luck mate[] sorry, this is a seiouse thread balljoints are a big issue, as i also read an aditional thread (lowerd 944s and shatterd balljoints) page 6 at the moment and realised it was a much bigger issue than one to keep to my self....if the above balljoint fits and performs....please advise many thanks to you all...

 

[John Sims]

Not the correct link, but I found them in the end.

They look very similar to the standard Rennbay ball joint kit and will fit the alloy arms.

Design 911 do provide the fitting instructions herewith :- http://www.design911.co.uk/help/95134100000.html

Having just had a pair of ball joints fitted I would highly recommend going for the exchange arm. According to my Independent they are an absolute sod to dismantle. It has cost me a small fortune to find this out - please don't fall into the same trap.

 

[sawood12]

John, are these your second pair of lower wishbones that you fitted the Rennbay joints to?

 

[John Sims]

I have two sets of wishbones but only one set with the Rennbay ball joints in them - the ones that are now on the car.......Why?

 

[John Sims]

Herewith the Rennbay kit:-

 

[sawood12]

Because with my car now booked into Promax for the KW I was thinking about how I was going to sort myself out with some. In order to keep labour costs down I was considering buying some wishbones from a breakers and carry out the replacement myself, but from your comments it seems like it might be a bit too much of a job for me in my rudimentary workshop with limited tools and equipment.

 

[John Sims]

I don't know, as I didn't do the job, but can appreciate why it would be tricky - perhaps when you have done a few it isn't so bad.

As far as I can see the main problem is removing the circlip (the silvery rings on the right in the picture). These aren't circlips with ears that you can use circlip pliers on but like a flattened key ring. You have to find the end and lever it out then uncoil it - all the time with the balljoint compressed between two sockets to take the tension off.

I will probably dismantle the ball joint on my now redundant arms just to see how difficult it really is.

 

[Hilux]

Because with my car now booked into Promax for the KW

Yay [][] Way to go Scott.

I`m back there soon at their new premises to have mine checked over and adjusted. I hope to take a few piccies of it all while its up on the four poster.

 

[sawood12]

Yep, back end of April. Unfortunately the budget doesn't stretch to Weltmiester ARB's at this time but they can be fitted at any time in the future. I am going to fit powerflex bushes to the current ARB set up to make sure they are working as hard as they possibly can do so it'll be interesting to see how the KW's go with the std ARB's. I did consider the 968 M030 ARB set up but it's not that much cheaper than the Weltmiesters and they are not that much thicker than the standard ARB's so it's a false economy in my mind. I'm also struggling to find some 2nd hand M030 torsion bars which I want to have fitted at the same time - they seem pretty rare at the breakers.

I think i'll ask Promax for a quote to fit the Rennbay kit. I'll sleep easier knowing it's been done with all the chit chat about the possibility of failure and it'd bug me until I eventually would get it done anyway, and it'll be cheaper to do it now with only one re-alignment to pay for. Failing that i'm not sure what to do.

 

[edh]

How many hours labour pays for the re-manufactured arms from Hartech? - I bet it doesn't work out that much more expensive

 

[sawood12]

Do Hartech do the ones with the extended length pin though? If so then some sort of exchange service will be right up my alley.

 

[Peter Empson]

I'd hate for someone else to go through what happened to my car, I cannot begin to stress how bad an accident it could have been if it had happened anywhere else. I do however think you have to use them under fairly extreme circumstances to experience a failure.

John, were your wishbones M030 ones?
The reason I ask is that Ollie discovered that it would be very difficult to fit the Rennbay kit to them (which was the original plan) and ended up using normal ones. On Firday he didn't mention they were a hassle to fit so when I next speak to him I'll try to find out how long they took him.

Just in case anyone is thinking of replacing their wishbones I have a less than one year old M030 nearside one for sale, it cost me £430ish and it's now surplus []

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson

John, were your wishbones M030 ones?

No. Nothing special, just standard wishbones.

I'll certainly be interested to hear how others get along.

As Scott said, I am much happier knowing that I shouldn't have any issues with my ball joints, but only time will tell.

 

[rob944s]

[X(]I have the front left hand side wishbone off my 88 944s at the moment and i have managed to get the cicular clip out without major hassle, a couple of vey small screw drivers was all it took!but this was definatly made easier by the balljoint being completly knackerd i imagine getting it in with trying to compress the spring in the balljoint a bit of a headache but i would say getting it back together might be easier than removing it, maybe i am foolishly willing to give it a try but still not sure if the design 911 ball joint will fit or be any good, also the circlip i removed had a gap between the two slash cut ends the rennbay kit doesnt seem to have what i have which i think are original.. thanks for the balljoint photo john, it does make things a lot clearer when you can see what your trying to explain.[] I have tried my best to get the image that i took but you will have to click the attachment to view it, i tell you a little more brains i would be dangerous (i am crap on the computer) i think i have a viriouse......,,,,""((666%

 

[Hilux]

I'd hate for someone else to go through what happened to my car, I cannot begin to stress how bad an accident it could have been if it had happened anywhere else. I do however think you have to use them under fairly extreme circumstances to experience a failure.

I am quite happy with my new set up as I consider it is working within the parameters of the original Mo30 but with harder/better dampers and springs. However looking at the design I can see how wear can quickly increase and consider it a good thing to replace at some point and while there why not use the extended pins if you intend to use it on track

 

[Peter Empson]

Just come off the phone with the mechanic that did my car and he said they took 1 to 1.5 hours each to do. He said it would only fit (or maybe only easily) the earlier type of wishbone and not the ones where it is pressed in from the top (hence the comments I made about the M030 type above).

 

[rob944s]

my balljoints on my 88 944s are inserted from below are not all wishbones of this style like this? and please explain m030 as i am not sure what it means....

 

[sawood12]

OK I spoke to Barry at Hartech today and he explained the process to me. When they remove the old ball joints he said that more often than not there is wear to the bottom of the pocket on the wishbone as the plastic shim under the ball joint wears quite quickly so you get the ball wearing on the bottom of the socket in the wishbone. Hartec have a machining process that re-establishes the correct shape at the bottom of the socket before replacing the ball joint. Without this maching process the plastic shim will wear more rapidly. He said it takes about 1.5hrs per arm, so three hours labour in total.

Rob - M030 was an optional extra for 'sports chassis'. It basically comprised of upgraded and adjustable Koni yellow suspension, uprated ARB's and uprated front brakes. The M030 lower wishbones are also different so I can also assume they were uprated ball joints to allow for the adjustable suspension - maybe these are the type that are installed from underneath.

 

[rob944s]

Thanks scott for clearing that up for me when you guys mention M030 at least i know what your on about, i have just had another look at my wishbone and it looks like there is signs of damage at the top of the balljoint seat as if it has impacted the upper inside of the cup (on the actual alloy) just below where the shaft goes into the hub, iam wondering if this is also a machining process to this kind of wish bone to re-seat the balljoint. so ruleing out a straight forward re-placement.

 

[sawood12]

Well there are two failure modes i've read about with the alloy arms and both are attributed to lowered cars where the ball joint is rotated beyond it's design intent. I suppose it may be possible for a car at standard ride height but knackered shocks to over-rotate the ball joints under particularly heavy braking but I guess you'd have to really be going for it. One mode is where the ball over-rotates and the pin creates an indentation in the top rim edge of the lower arm socket. If left unchecked it can start to crack form the indentation and result in the arm itself breaking. The other failure mode is where the pin shears as in Peters case (i'm not sure exactly how this happens, maybe it is due to the same causes). If the damage you've observed on your arms is similar to what i've described then you should get it checked over. I think it might be repairable if the damage is not too deep, I guess the indentation can be blended out to prevent cracks starting to form, but I would take proffessional advice on this and get a proffessional to fix it up. The guys at Hartec seem very experienced in issues regarding ball joints and I had a good long chat with a chap called Barry who seems to be their in-house ball joint expert and is the guy who actually carries out the work. I'm getting Promax to send my lower wishbones to Hartec to have the Rennbay ball joint kit fitted while they are fitting the KW.