944s2 and 944 Turbo s specs

[shandyhaggis]

Hi all

Im toying over buying S2 or whether to push the boat out and look at the turbo S. I appreciate they are different in power delivery and there are pros and cons of the turbo vs the S2 as an everyday car and of course running costs will be slightly higher.

Does anyone have any info regards specs of each car? I'm interested to know what the S2 and turbo shared. Im sure I read the S2 has the same brakes and a LSD etc from the Turbo S but Im not sure what else is different.

In normal driving conditions Im guessing the Turbo is not quite as economical and for town driving wont be the best. Im likely to drive mainly on dual carriage ways and motor ways (with a nice 4 mile country twisty bit on the way).

What sort of mpg will the turbo and s2 do at a steady 80 (sorry I meant on or around the speed limit officer).

thanks in advance

Andrew

 

[Hairyarse]

Hi Andrew

Do you mean only Turbo S or Turbo in general? - i.e standard 220 and 250 bhp models too?

I've owned an S2 and now a 220 turbo. The S2 is a lovely car, great engine, loads of torque (you can almost drive it like an auto in town!) and deceptively fast. If you're after a daily driver this is where my money would go. For a weekend toy, turbo every time for me - it's part of the reason I sold the S2 - as nice as it was, it just didn't excite quite enough, whereas the kick in the back from even my standard 220 turbo puts a grin on the face every time!

Specs are generally similar, pending model year, LSD's were options on standard turbos (I have one []) but do some searches on here and on tinterweb in general and you'll soon find all the numbers.

From memory I averaged about 28 MPG in the S2 and in the turbo 23-25MPG, irrespective of how hard or soft I drive it. I think each car will differ a little on MPG given age, condition etc.

Hope that helps? Good luck with your search and keep us update!

Cheers
Andy

 

[Lowtimer]

I get a long term average of 29 mpg out of my mildly tuned Turbo: across a whole tank, a high of 31 when using it for actually getting places, and a low of about 24 when purely using it for Sunday morning blasts. Obviously with 300 bhp you _can_ drag the consumption down lower than with 211 bhp, especially on track, but if you drive the two cars in convoy there won't be more than 1-2 mpg difference. I generally plan on either 29 or 30 mpg for general transport which for me means keeping up with the faster traffic on the late-night A1 between Cambridgshire and North Yorkshire.

The LSD was optional on the S2 and hardly anyone specified it so you are unlikely to find one on an S2. The car does not need it, frankly. Mine, being a 1990 Turbo, had it fitted as standard, as did all the Turbos that came out of the factory with 250 bhhp (bear in mind that the overwhelming majority of factory 250 bhp / LSD Turbos have the factory designation of just plain Turbo, not Turbo S, which was only applied to the very first few 250 bhp cars). The first generation of Turbos, the 220 bhp cars, did not have standard LSD either.

Brakes: as standard the S2 had the same brakes as the early 220 bhp turbo: on both of those cars the standard brakes were smaller than those fitted to all 250 bhp Turbos. However, it has been between and 22 and 24 years since these cars were built and many have been modified and upgraded in various ways.

A late 250 bhp Turbo looks externally and internally very similar to a late S2, but an awful lot is different under the skin. The wheels, the brakes, the gearbox, the exhaust, the under-car airflow management, the final drive ratio, the LSD, the exhaust, the intercooler, the turbo, the compression ratio, the cylinder head design, the number of camshafts and valves, some subtle aspects of the bodywork, the basic engine capacity... really they are different cars in many, many ways some very fundamental, some very subtle.

Both really good though, in their different ways.

Don't buy one or the other based on it being a Turbo or an S2: buy the best car you can find, especially in terms of being corrosion-free in all the usual rust-traps (of which there cars have plenty), having good trim inside and out, and having had lots of work done by someone deeply competent over the past four or five years, and without evidence of having been heavily crashed. At this age, you should be looking for a car which shows signs of far more than routine servicing, you really want one which has been subject to a determined programme of active mechanical refurbishment and restoration over recent years.

 

[chrisg]

Andrew

How to ask the £64 million dollar question on this forum !

To answer some of your questions:

1. Turbo S is a rare beast, spec wise though the later turbos had identical spec inc. brakes ( medium black calipers deom the 928s4 with larger disc) etc and I believe the LSD.

2. As standard, S2 didn't have uprated brakes nor LSD, although the later was available as an option but very few were made with that option.

3. Daily driver and reliable, having owned both without doubt S2. Turbo has much more to go wrong with it, boost mixture etc

4. Point 3 is made on the proviso/caveat that the S2 specific issues, around the chain, chain tensioner, pads and camshaft are sorted.

5. General point to bear in mind, all 944's are OLD and suffer the same type of age related issues:

A. Head gasket failed/ slowly failing
B. water pump old, radiator not as efficient
C. Belts and pulleys need regular maintance.
D. Suspension bushes and anything else that is rubber and could perish/ degrade, inc fuel pipes. Water hoses, top mounts PAS hoses, oil cooler hoses.
E. brake pipes( flexi rubber and hard lines) will need attention, particularly rear lines over the axle ( include fuel lines too).


None of the above are insurmountable nor doable at home/ driveway with some knowledge and tools - ask around on the forum. Clark's garage (despite specifically for turbos) is very useful for step by step procedures, advice and settings.

In summary, regular usage and reliability go for an S2. Even with hard usage, provided the brakes are in food fettle, SS braided lines and decent pads/ fluid, you will NOT need an upgrade unless you fit a supercharger ! Porsche have and are very good at engineering and the brake dept. was/ is massively over capacity.

Yours

Chris

 

[GlennS]

ORIGINAL: shandyhaggis


What sort of mpg will the turbo and s2 do at a steady 80 (sorry I meant on or around the speed limit officer).

The S2 is very similar in most respects (excepting the engine of course) to the 220 Turbo.

As for fuel economy, the first (and only) time I ever bothered to measure fuel economy on my S2 was on a 300 mile run of mostly motorway running shortly after I bought it. I wanted to be good and do 70, the car wanted to be naughty and do 90; we compromised and did @80mph most of the time. The trip was mostly in daylight although I did do about 70 miles with the lights up (it makes quite a difference having the air-brakes deployed). The car averaged almost exactly 30mpg on 95 RON, it would have done a little better on Super.

 

[chrisg]

Just re read my post meant to say " are insurmountable and ARE easily doable"....

 

[Hairyarse]

Can't agree more with the statement about buying on condition as you certainly wont be disappointed with any of the above models. A well sorted S2 is bound to satisfy much more than a poorly looked after Turbo

 

[chrisg]

I also forget to mention the dreaded plate lift with the Brembo mono block calipers, both the S2 and Turbo S will suffer with this an need work every 10 yrs or so. Again easy to do if you know how

 

[J4CKO]

I think the reason for the S2 never being specified with the bigger brakes and LSD is that if you knew what they were and wanted those items, in most cases you would just have bought a turbo.

I have not driven a turbo, I would like to try one but I know what would happen, I would sell my half decent S2 Cab, I would then start looking for one and then buy some old woofer that needs loads doing but has the boost cranked up so it makes for a memorable test drive, despite it blowing smoke and forcing oil out of every orifice and then miss my S2 cab.

 

[T3rra]

I get 29/32 in my turbo 250 at about 80 and 25 around town.

Turbo is looking 2 be more off an investment.
Turbo S has no sun roof. But if your talking 88+ turbo then it will be 250bhp

Most likely be fully loaded optune wise, and will be worth more in parts then s2
More common on turbos then s2
Sport seats
Air con
10 speaker setup

M030 optune
LSD
Adjustable front coil overs
Brake ducts and vents
Larger front calipers
( rear brakes on turbo are the s2 front )
Larger torsion bars


All cars will need money, some more then others. But a turbo with money spent may increase it resale vaule.

Iv own 2.5 16v and 88 turbo 250 full spec. Drove an s2 which felt quick low down. However the turbo is faster car expessaily once your moving. But requires working 2 get the most from it S2 can be quite lazy.

Mpg wise I would think the turbo would get more, can be driven around in 5th at 30mph if you like.

Biggest factor is bugget. 3/6k should get u a great s2 needing little 2 nothing if brought correctly. Turbo at that money can be found but will most likely be be another 2k 4 it 2 be in the same shape as a 6k s2

 

[shandyhaggis]

Thanks everyone for the insight.

Funnily my 2.9 boxster gets 25-32 depending on distance etc. The 996 I had was more like 23-28 so the 944 turbo or s2 looks good even by modern standards.

Its always difficult to tell with out driving each but though Id like a turbo S as has all the extra benefits I suspect Id enjoy the S2 better as I find Im using out and out speed less as I get older and getting more out of handling.

Not too fussed about sport seats or air con (I never use it), LSD.... mmm would be nice... 10 speaker sound system... yes Id like one of those. The system in the boxter I have I don't find particularly good. Heated seats - yes please (sad I know).

Im going to have a look at a S2 in Yorkshire (I mentioned in a previous post). Fully restored body wise by professionals, lots of other restoration work (brakes, belt done etc), but has 199k on the clock. Ive asked the chap for the option codes to see whats on the car. Sadly it doesn't have a service book but has lots of history so Ill wade through that to see whats what.

Ive always liked the 944 and 928. I drove a 928 GTS a few years ago but just didnt get on with it and as an everyday car it would eat my wallet and make me sell my children to put petrol in it. I got back on to the 944 after having a test drive in a new toyota GT86. The GT86 is billed as the 'best drivers car etc etc.... but I just came away thinking it lacked grunt, and who deliberately puts skinny tyres on a car to make it slide on every corner? Finally they have patched the engine noise in to the cabin to make a horrid droning noise. I came away thinking the concept was good but I'm sure the 944 still is a better car, hence having a closer look to see if im right.

thanks again

A

 

[T3rra]

With out air con leather seats can be very sticky and uncomfortable in the heat off summer.

Possable 2 find an S2 with that and 10 speacker package.

 

[GlennS]

I have A/C on my S2 and find it a complete waste of time, mainly because whenever it is hot and sunny I take the sunroof out []

 

[T3rra]

Do u have leather seats? Sunroof fine if under 60 mph and then the noise is to much. I found I needed a change off tops if drove 4 longer then hour in the summer b4 my air con was re gassed, must admit there was only a fans full off days that are like that anyway

No air con/ go 4 cloth seats.

 

[GlennS]

Yes, I have leather sports seats. Drop the side windows a fraction of an inch and the wind noise from the sunroof drops dramatically. Good for 80+ that way.

 

[T3rra]

Really, well r have 2 try that. I'm pretty pro sunroof, protesting that its removable in 30secs

 

[bmnelsc]

ORIGINAL: GlennS

I have A/C on my S2 and find it a complete waste of time, mainly because whenever it is hot and sunny I take the sunroof out []

There you go...I have an S2 with AC, script insert seats and NO sunroof - I find the AC quite necessary. Mind you - it gets into the 80's F here quite regularly in summer and I've been spoiled by climate controlled Nissans and Infinitis for more than a decade so my "comfort zone" is probably a little skewed []

 

[edh]

very few s2's have aircon, even fewer have working aircon.

most important in a black / black car of course (even more important in a non sunroof car)..and very nice to have in a car you're doing big miles in.

I've always found tilting the roof gives you great ventilation though.

 

[Frenchy]

The designer of the Toyota GT was influenced by and based it around the 944......fact ! he worked in Germany for some years and greatly admired the car, regards your search both are great with different personalities, you need to drive both to see which ticks your boxes, when buying a house Location, Location,Location.

When buying a 944 Condition, Condition, Condition.

I do not agree with the unfounded believe that a Turbo is more expensive to run than an S2 ? a good one with everything as it should be is as reliable as a modern day car, 10+ years of Turbo ownership has only ever seen a DME relay failure stop one of my cars, it can get expensive when you get the tuning bug, 300 BHP can easily be had for £500, but some of our respected forum members will admit to getting carried away with the quest for more power []

Good luck with your search, get a good one and you will love it []

 

[TTM]

I have both an S2 and a turbo, and I can say that it took me a ridicu...fair amount of cash to eventually enjoy the turbo as much as I have always enjoyed the S2 out of the box.
The S2 is fantastic as a tourer but quickly leaves to be desired in terms of straight line performance - it feels like either it lacks 100hp or it is 200kg too heavy, depending which way you look at it. In a ideal world we would probably want the lighter 924S with an S2 drivetrain and the updated dahsboard.

Try as many as you can before taking a decision and buy the car that is in the best condition - this is what will dictate how much it will cost you in the long run, infinitely more than it just being either an S2 or a turbo.