944T Launch control

[George Elliott]

Interested in how you turbo owners manage the question of RFC - Right Foot Control.

Taking a tuned turbo up through the gears swiftly and maintaining traction is an art, and becomes more of an art as the power increases, or the grip decreases, or both!

I have a LSD, Toyo Road tyres @ 34psi cold, 1.2Bar boost at 2800rpm and the roads are usually damp this time of year. My car is not highly tuned compared to many.

1st is WOT until 3k RPM, then 50% throttle until 4.2k, then open the taps as much as the grip allows until 5.8k, then
2nd is 60% until 4k increasing to 90% at 5.8k change up, then
3rd is 80% until 5k, then WOT, change up at 6k
4th is WOT ........and the grip alternates from L to Right to both to left again and so on - amazing how these cars can dig to find grip under power.
this all takes approx 12 seconds - on a (straight) track.

If the car breaks traction everything goes to pot, - wheels lose grip, engine hits limiter, closed throttle interrupts boost - you know the story.

Any tips welcome

George
944T

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

the roads are usually damp this time of year.

In the lower gears its simply impossible to use all the power in cold, damp conditions. Modern cars have all sorts of electronic gizmos, traction control, stability management etc but ours don't and that is part of the joy of them - it's all down to you.

At this time of year place a raw egg on the accelerator then be gentle []

 

[Suffolk944]

Yup the only launch control is the Mark 1 brain/right foot combo which is all part of the fun ! Lower gears as paul said you just have to keep things steady. I do actually have a low boost setting on my EBC for just such road conditions though have never tried it ! [8D]

 

[JamesBall]

My largely innuendoes 220 never brakes traction in a straight line. I guess there is a bonus to being under powered

 

[robwright]

+1 again moderation is the key!!! If it even looks like being damp or it is raining I don't even bother. However it will be summer again soon so open season []

 

[DivineE]

I unfortunately haven't had much of a chance to drive WUF in the wet yet but previously I've always found you can use full throttle in all the gears if you're soft with the clutch and keep the revs high going through the ratios. You have to roll it off the line half throttle and slipping the clutch but after that I tend to keep my foot to the floor.

You can make it spin by choice very easily but I've never had a problem when I've needed to make progress.. only time it sometimes catches me out is by coming on boost in a wet corner if the revs happen to be sitting at the 3500mark.

I've never actually had toyo's on a 944 but they've been great on other cars. Have you noticed more lag? Maybe you have a slight boost leak making the ramp up onto boost later and so sharper?

 

[Lowtimer]

With a 2.5 at a relatively modest 1.2 bar (I am assuming this is chip / fuelling / wastegate mods, and that you would tell us if you had a lot of other power-increasing modifications) I am surprised that you are breaking traction in third and very surprised about fourth, if the conditions are merely damp roads rather than streaming wet and/or slush and ice. It makes me wonder if your tyres are not what they seem, or if your rear suspension may be a bit tired. Are you on 245/45 16 on 9" rims? My Toyos T-1R seem pretty grippy even in the cold and damp. What is the calendar age of your tyres?

 

[homesea]

This is interesting to me as I posted a similar thing a while back, I have about the same setup as George including Toyos (less then 2 years old and plenty of tread).
If damp not wet and you are over ½ throttle passing through the magic 3.5k revs in 3rd it will spin its wheels. Last time it was suggested I had suspension problems but the rear end is less than a year old so all good. Maybe some just make more power than others.[]

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: homesea

This is interesting to me as I posted a similar thing a while back, I have about the same setup as George including Toyos (less then 2 years old and plenty of tread).
If damp not wet and you are over ½ throttle passing through the magic 3.5k revs in 3rd it will spin its wheels. Last time it was suggested I had suspension problems but the rear end is less than a year old so all good. Maybe some just make more power than others.[]

It is odd - I replied to your post last year as well

I never had wheelspin in 3rd, and had to be very brutal (WOT) in 1st / 2nd to make the wheels spin - Toyo T1R/Leda 285hp/315lbft on the rollers of truth (....that was before Vitesse MAF / Tial DPW was fitted)
It was easier to make the wheels spin when exiting a bend, so I was always careful until the front wheels were straight.

 

[zcacogp]

Struggling with the power of a turbo? Sorry about that. My only advice would be to never buy an S2 then ... This is what the rear tyres from my S2 looked like after a couple of (embarrassing) wheel-spin-in-5th-in-the-dry incidents:

(You don't want to know what my undercrackers looked like ... )


Oli.

 

[homesea]

Oli, that was the only reason I didnt buy a S2!

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: homesea
Oli, that was the only reason I didnt buy a S2!

Enormously wise, Tom; at takes a very sensible man to know his limits as you clearly do.

I respect your restraint, sir.


Oli.

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Struggling with the power of a turbo? Sorry about that. My only advice would be to never buy an S2 then ... This is what the rear tyres from my S2 looked like after a couple of (embarrassing) wheel-spin-in-5th-in-the-dry incidents:

(You don't want to know what my undercrackers looked like ... )


Oli.

"Now, when I click my fingers you'll be wide awake and back in the room..."!!!!

 

[sawood12]

I found that the only way to get a good quick and consistent start from the line in a turbo was not to regulate using the right foot, but regulate using the left leg. I would set revs at around 4.5kprm and bring up the clutch. As it engaged and revs drop I would use the right foot to try to maintain between 4k and 4.5krpm and regulate feeding the power in using the clutch. Only once you got into the high rpm's in second and heading for the change to third could you deploy more than 4.5krpm. This means slipping the clutch more than you would normally, but avoids wheelspin (and associated abuse to the drivetrain) and allows you to maintain full boost pressure and therefore have max torque on command. Takes a bit of practice and I didn't like to use this technique too much in the interests of saving the clutch, but it was a stunningly effective method of pulling out into small gaps on large busy roundabouts.

 

[DivineE]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

I found that the only way to get a good quick and consistent start from the line in a turbo was not to regulate using the right foot, but regulate using the left leg.

This is exactly how I get off th line fast in first but I don't do it in 2nd.

 

[Hilux]

4th is WOT ........and the grip alternates from L to Right to both to left again and so on - amazing how these cars can dig to find grip under power.
this all takes approx 12 seconds - on a (straight) track.

All original LSD`s will be cream crackered to a greater or lesser extent and wont work properly unless refurbished.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: appletonn

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Struggling with the power of a turbo? Sorry about that. My only advice would be to never buy an S2 then ... This is what the rear tyres from my S2 looked like after a couple of (embarrassing) wheel-spin-in-5th-in-the-dry incidents.)


(You don't want to know what my undercrackers looked like ... )


Oli.

"Now, when I click my fingers you'll be wide awake and back in the room..."!!!!

OK Appleton - I'm watching you.

(And ignoring that comment!)


Oli.

 

[Fat Albert]

My kids tend to yell 'Clarkson' if there is any back end leeriness upon roundabout exits, etc.

I use the clutch method if I need to pull out of a T junction or roundabout, but otherwise feed the power in as much as I dare, it feels like you get more boost this way rather than just mashing the pedal into the carpet anyway (my Saabs and Wifey's BMWs were/are the same)

 

[George Elliott]

sounds like we all have the same basic challenge, part of my challenge is down to the SPS engine and turbo which make hugely more rapid power than any of my previous 951's. The diff is fine Hilux, I realise they are basically a wet clutch and do wear but the wear is negligable and the locking action similar to very low mileage benchmarks I have driven. SPS put a sports Sachs clutch, "turbo Cup spec" which seems to be well up to the task, but I do not subscribe to the Slippage or sidestep theory's mentioned. Partly because I maintain the car and know the techniques are not mechanically sympathetic, and also because 1400 rpm and a swift but gentle release simultaneous with opening the throttle progressively gets a very brisk result off the line. I'm on M030 with 9700 miles and standard bushes, so not exactly Touring Car but not rubbish either.
The S2 solution........have to admit I never drove one, but recall back in the day a turbo owner pal who had a S2 while the turbo was being serviced told me it was a really nice torquey old car, he had great admiration for it. I have no doubt they are totally undervalued and underestimated.
Like the idea of the two stage boost
George

 

[barks944]

I'm going to run gear/RPM based boost control with my new system. Should be able to program a boost curve to help maintain traction in 1st and second. You can do this with a standalone EBC too.