964 3.3 brake upgrades?

[carrerasport]

Any suggestions for an economical soloution to ever constant cracking of the front brake discs on a track day 964 turbo 3.3. It has the same brakes as the 964 rs model ,I.E 322mm X32mm front disc on radial calipers and 299mmx28mm on rear with conventional mounted calipers.Does anybody make a non cross drilled disc or 2piece rotor /bell set up for these models? preferably grooved and maybe a slightly larger diameter as an upgrade.

Also does anybody know who makes a radial mount conversion bracket for mounting the 993 front brake set up to a std 964 hub (std 964= 299mmX28mm vented non cross drilled disc and std mounting caliper) and (std 993 =300mmX32mm vented&crossdrilled with radial mount caliper).
Many thanks Gents!!

 

[Ben Savill]

I found a great thread on the various brake upgrades available detailing parts needed if you wish to keep the original uprights and use a mounting bracket / spacer or going the 993 RS / GT2 Evo upright which does away with the need for the bracket but then means use of different tie rod ends and things. The thread lists the various retailers of the parts - in the US though admittedly.

Have a feeling it is on Rennlist somewhere. I'll dig it out and post it.

In regards to the current problem, do you religiously blow out the brake dust from the holes on the drilled discs after a track day? Certainly seems to help the life of the discs.

Cheers.

 

[vic cohen]

Performance friction make some discs i cud nt wear out ..............similar price to originals .......i had 380 mm on a car pulling approx 500bhp and i am very nervy and tend to overbrake !

Combined with yellow pagids ...............unreal

Also using top hats and floaters seems to have the drilled discs dissipating more heat..............last a little longer

 

[Jamie Summers]

ORIGINAL: carrerasport

Also does anybody know who makes a radial mount conversion bracket for mounting the 993 front brake set up to a std 964 hub (std 964= 299mmX28mm vented non cross drilled disc and std mounting caliper) and (std 993 =300mmX32mm vented&crossdrilled with radial mount caliper).
Many thanks Gents!!

I used this set up on my old 964 C2, and 9m sell the bracket you're looking for. The 993 caliper bolts right on, but you need to use a slightly bigger disc. The two factory discs that fit this set up are the 928 S4 disc (undrilled) or the 968 MO030 (drilled but CRAZILLY expensive). I went for aftermarket Zimmerman drilled discs eventually. You can't use the 993 disc as the offset is wrong to use with the 964 hub / upright.
Out of interest the 993 caliper is the same body as the RS / 3.3 Turbo, but the RS / 3.3 has longer mounting lugs which pushes the caliper out further radially and explains the bigger discs on the RS / 3.3 (took me a long time to figure that one out !)

Jamie

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

Jamie do you mean the mounting lugs on the caliper or the hub. Cant remember how they fit now and don't have the car in front of me . I thought caliper was identical?

 

[carrerasport]

Thanks gents for your input, I have spoken to perf friction and they definately dont do a disc which is a bolt on replacement for a 964rs disc,also Vic a 380mm set up wouldnt fit inside an 18inch wheel from what ive seen.I am looking at 928 gts discs at the moment to see if they can be adapted to fit,they are same dia and thickness but have a 10 mm wider pad track (928 uses big red caliper only its black!!) and they are not crosss drilled.so may last longer.it seems that a standard c2/c4 hub is easier to upgrade because you have the room to use a radial mount conversion and place the caliper where you like and this gets over the problem of all the similar porsche discs which all have slightly different top hat offsets making a pain of trying to use existing parts.
I will figure it out eventually,i just hope its not to dear aswell!!!
regards C

 

[Ian964]

There are a few people who do floating disc conversion kits for a 964RS - Neil Bainbridge at BS Motorsports was working on one last time I spoke to him.

 

[chfs911]

" DISCS for use with Big Red or Big Black type calipers (all 322mmx32mm)

965 (911-964 3.6 Turbo)
1-piece disc, cross drilled, 45mm top hat
965-351-045-00
965-351-046-00

928 GTS
1-piece disc, NON cross drilled, 45mm top hat
928-351-045-01
928-351-046-01

993 Twin Turbo
2-piece disc, cross drilled, 40mm top hat (separate disc and mounting "˜hat')
993-351-045-10
993-351-046-10
discs are seldom used, 993RS cheaper

993RS
1 piece disc, cross drilled, 40mm top hat
993-351-045-00
993-351-046-00


DISCS for use with M030 (928 S4) calipers (all 304mm x 32mm)

968 M030
1-piece disc, cross drilled, 45mm top hat
965-351-041-01
965-351-042-01

928 S4
1-piece disc, NON cross drilled, 45mm top hat
928-351-045-01
928-351-046-01


Discs with a "˜top-hat' (offset) dimension of 45mm will have an outer disc pad face in the same position as standard "" the larger discs are thicker (32mm vs 28mm) therefore the inner pad face of the discs are 4mm further in (into the car). This will close the gap between the disc face and the track rod end "" it has been suggested that heat build up from the disc can be a problem, but I have never heard of any actual experience of this.

Discs with a "˜top-hat' dimension of 40mm will have an outer disc pad face 5mm further out than standard (also pushing the caliper further out by 5mm and closer to the spokes of your wheels). The inner pad face of the discs will be ""1mm further out from standard (further out of the car) and hence remains virtually the same distance from your track rod end.

NOTE: the M030 spindle/hub assembly locates the disc approximately 3mm further out to compensate for the additional thickness of the discs from standard.


CALIPERS

Big Reds (993 Twin Turbo calipers)

993-351-425-10
993-351-426-10
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Leading, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes require swapping over for trailing mounting. Pad retention springs will be upside-down. Red in colour.

Big Blacks (928GTS calipers)

928-351-423-03
928-351-424-03
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Trailing, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes in correct position. Pad retention springs in correct orientation. Black in colour.

M030 calipers (928 S4 calipers) (also used on 944 S2 M030, 944 Turbo S)

928-351-421-03
928-351-422-03
36mm/44mm piston sizes

 

[Melv]

Simples.......won't cost a penny[]

a) revise your braking technique!!!

b) allow a cooling down lap, no brakes!

c) drill out the dust from the holes...........

 

[carrerasport]

Chfs 911 that is a useful set of dimensions, But before i read the post i had physically tried a set of 928gts discs and found that they fit!!So that solves the cross drilled holes cracking issue.now i am going to see if i can fit the caliper plates from a big red and use the wider pads of the big reds to complement the wider track pad of the gts discs.The gts discs are cheraper than the 964 turbo discs so this is an unexpected bonus!!So it seems a economical soloution is starting to look viable.Also the gts disc could be used with the std 964 turbo caliper and pads but would have a (10mm) portion of the disc running face unused ,which seems a waste if its not to difficult to utilise it.Alternativley i can always but a pair of big reds and this will fit the combination perfectly as i tried a big red on the disc to check today also!
best regards C
P.s this may be of some use to rs owners as well as the brake setup is the same from a caliper/disc point of view.

 

[Ben Savill]

This is the link I was talking about.
Good for reference and comes with pics too.....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-964-993-technical-forum/370105-964rs-brakes.html

 

[Jamie Summers]

Laurence,
It's the mounting lugs on the caliper itself that are longer on the RS version as far as I understand it, though I haven't seen the two types of calipers side by side to confirm this .......

Jamie

 

[Konstantin]

Hi Guys,

I was in US a few months ago and bought the 332 AP sloted discs with alloy anodise hats from Wrightwood racing with adaptors to fit the 964 wheel carrier with big reds/blacks, it's a great piece of kit, obviously you can get the APs in UK and have the alloy hat made, and shim the adaptor by another 5mm,
europerformance in Uk is saling the rear and front standart size 964 sloted discs from Nitrac a UK based company that make sloted cryogenic treated discs,

Konstantin C4

 

[Jamie Summers]

ORIGINAL: Konstantin

europerformance in Uk is saling the rear and front standart size 964 sloted discs from Nitrac a UK based company that make sloted cryogenic treated discs,

Konstantin C4

They claim to have them in RS size on the website, though they quote the same 298mm size as normal C2 / C4, so don't be fooled !!!

Jamie

 

[Konstantin]

yes they do, sily ! anyone can see it is not an RS by the size,

I wonder how well they would work with proper pads and fluid with 4 pots rear caliper


Konstantin C4