968 versus 964

[John H]

This topic has been aired a few times, and I am unashamedly doing a "cut and paste" from a discussion elsewhere, if only in the hopes of getting some debate going here. Read on ...

968 versus 964

I recently spent a short holiday in the north west of Scotland with two friends who both own (indeed are obsessed with) 964's. One of them is absolutely stock, the other has been extensively re-worked to bring it close to RS standard.

Conditions were excellent, it is a very sparsley populated area, very little traffic, open safe roads, and good weather. We did some pretty keen driving.

I was genuinely surprised at just how quick my 968 was, and on the majority of roads there was virtually nothing in it. On really open fast roads, they were willing to go up to higher top speeds than me (they still don't believe me that the police patrol up here too!) but there is little doubt that the 968 would have kept up if I'd pressed it. My only criticism of my 968 was that as it is a coupe, it has a slightly higher roll centre than I would like, and for the first time I regretted not buying a Club Sport. It could get a little unsettled braking hard into bumpy bends, which I'm sure would be improved by just lowering it a little. In more sensible driving though the coupe is just fine.

Later on I drove both of the 964's and was surprised at how awkward they felt ... offset wheel, floor pedals, narrow cabin, etc. I could certainly not have driven one of these cars as fast as my friends were doing, simply because it would take a lot longer to get acclimatised to their foibles. 911 enthusiasts call this "character", those of us with more sense know it as "antiquated design" (eg. if the 964 layout is so good, why did Porsche not retain it for the 996? ... discuss).

What the 964's did do was make the 968 seem huge! The 964 is a very compact little car, and very densely engineered. I have wanted a 911 of some type for many years, but I was so impressed with my 968, and so underwhelmed by the two 964's, that I may have gotten over my 911 fantasy.

And then I saw a GT3 .......... !

John H

 

[Guest]

John, my boy - You're certainly not afraid to go for it! Expect a barrage from the 964 boys, but, hey, we know what the score is, eh?? []

 

[John H]

A barrage would be most welcome!

JH

PS.... besides, I only tell it like I find it!

 

[Matt]

IMHO Having driven 964, 964RS and 968, I would agree that the 968 is as fast as a 964 (possibly faster than an RS) on normal british (bumpy) roads - when piloted by a 'normal' driver. As for the awkwardness of the 964 - you soon forget that when pressing on - especially with the wail of the engine in your ears. 968 sounds (to me) like a deeper version of a 70's alfasud - nice for a 4 cylinder but nowhere near as exciting as that flat 6.

Each model offers a different type of experience, however I believe that the 964 has the edge as a true (& uncomprimising) sports car, the 968 better as a practical everyday sports car.

Matt

PS - good to have a 968 forum - good luck moderating

 

[Guest]

IHMO

968 was the best 944

964, on other hand, was poorest 911.

Spizz

 

[John Boggiano]

Interesting what you were saying about brakes, McJohn... I don't recall actually noticing that your car had any! []

'fraid you just can't beat the 911 experience, no matter how good the car. The weildiness, the handling, the shape and that simply glorious engine...

 

[John H]

Much as it pains me to admit it Mr B, you were indeed correct about the brakes. Turns out I had a partially siezed caliper at the front. Now attended to and much improved.

John H

(Sharp eyed participants may deduce from this exchange that Mr Boggiano was one of the 964 fanatics involved in the little story above)

 

[John Boggiano]

The thing is (and I am sometimes as guilty as the next man of forgetting this), with an air-cooled 911, the buzz is about so much more than speed.

For its day, the 964 was a pretty quick car (as was the 968) - these days both are getting somewhat left behind. But the total driving/ownership experience is so incredibly rich with an air-cooled 911.

I am not one to put up with 'foibles' - I let my Elise go after only a year - the 964 just oozes real character. It feels so unique, so 'hunkered down' when pressing on and so dominating on the road.

But then, I do love it! 10 years of ownership and it's still welded into my psyche.

 

[Guest]

The reasons for me buying a 968 CS over a 911 based variant were many and admittedly money was fairly high on the list. But first and foremost it had to be a Porsche, i've always hankered after owning one and i know it comes from my engineering background and everything i've learned about the application of engineering methods in sports cars and that Porsche engineering is second to none. Also what attracts me to sports cars is a suitably powerful engine matched with better than average handling and no one can deny that the 968 has superb road holding, it could do with some more power for track use but this can't really be exercised on the public roads and i've never been interested in 0 to 60 times, more important to me is the 60 to 0 time and again Porsche excel in this department. What does it for me is being able to maintain the speed through the corners and not ending my journey with a sigh of relief and a feeling of, i must be a good driver because i was able to catch the rear end from overtaking the front several times.

Obviously, if i had the money, i'd probably like to own a 993 with some suitably value added letters after it's main denotation and they do look like something very special indeed. But still the idea of having all that weight behind the rear axle acting as a pendulum has never sat well with me and everything i know about the term balance. Admittedly it must be fun being able to easily provoke over steer and then practicing the art of saving it again, but then so is mastering the art of riding a uni cycle, great to watch but to what end!

If had even more money i'd like to own a 968 Turbo S but that's never gonna happen even if i could find one. It goes without saying that the man in the street, would say that the 968 doesn't have the street presence that the 964 has always enjoyed, but how much of that appeal is from the obvious looks of the car and the from the sound it makes, no one could say they don't sound terrific and they look very purposeful, mean and fast. But i've never been one to go for the obvious, i prefer the more understated approach, which is not possible in a 964 as it shouts look and listen to me, although having said that i ended up getting a Red car with Red wheels, believe me it was the last colour combo that i ever dreamed i'd end up driving but finding a 968 Club Sport in mint condition with low mileage is no easy task and so it had to be snapped up. And so back to the question in hand, to me the 968 is the better car, it does everything the 964 can do and them some without being to pushy about it.

Del.

 

[Melv]

What do you expect against the Brian and Johnny show!!

;-)

Melv

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Spizz Oil

IHMO

968 was the best 944

964, on other hand, was poorest 911.

Spizz

Whether the 968 was the best 944 or not is IMNSHO irrelevant, I'm sure there are a number of Japanese sportscars that perform just as well. I did try one and a Bogster before confirming that I still wanted a REAL Porsche.

I believe the 964 was the best all round 911. It is the last of the 911s with the classic looks before they started getting too rounded. But it has the sophistication and driveability of the later models. The last 964s, after the early defects had been designed out, are the best of the lot. The range includes something for everyone.The RS for the trackday boys, the C4 cabriolet for those who want an all year round car that is safe in winter, provides open top fun in summer and carries most things that Homebase can supply and oh the sound of the engine with the hood up but rear window unzipped, through the coupe to a LHD targa in hearing aid beige for the financially challenged.

 

[Matt]

Spizz
why do you think the 964 the worst 911? is it performance, looks, reliability, cost, handling, ride etc? interested in what makes you say that..
what do you reckon to be the best 911?

Matt

 

[Rob Sharp]

I agree with Del that first and foremost it had to be a Porsche.

I've wanted one from my earliest memories. My brother had a 356B in the early 70s and that was a wonderful motor.

For me though, I fell for the 968 ever since I saw a brand new speed-yellow 968CS emerge from a side road in front of me about 10 years ago. I just thought it was so gorgeous. It's taken long enough, but I've finally got the car I wanted.

My son asked me the other day "What's you dream car Dad?" I thought for a minute and realised, "I've got it!"

Of course we're never going to agree which Porsche is the best. We each love our own cars for our own private reasons, but above all, they're all Porsches.

Rob

 

[Mark_Bennett]

Whether the 968 was the best 944 or not is IMNSHO irrelevant, I'm sure there are a number of Japanese sportscars that perform just as well. I did try one and a Bogster before confirming that I still wanted a REAL Porsche.

That's right - you post rarely here, but you insult a large proportion of the membership - carry on [8|]

 

[Guest]

Spizz Oil.......PCM, PSE are these computer assisted failsafe get out of trouble driving aids.........if so how can I get them fitted to my 964RS?

 

[Melv]

Spizz

Have you passed your test yet?

[]

Melv

 

[Guest]

That's right - you post rarely here, but you insult a large proportion of the membership - carry on

You can do better than that Mark, argue back don't just get miffed. I thought the objective of the original posting was to inject a bit of life into this forum.[8D]

 

[ClubSport 911]

For what it's worth, my next Porsche will be a 968 CS. I love what I have, and will not part with it, but having driven 3 964 RS's now (nice btw) for some incoherent reason, I think a well presented 968CS fits the "all round" bill so very very well.

I any case, this is a great discussion - let's not all fall out over who has made the right choice, because I'm sure we all think we made the "best" that suited us as individuals !

Rgds to all

Steve

Ooopss.. am I allowed on here ??

 

[Matt]

Steve
having got rid of my company car and bought a 968CS as my everyday car, i can vouch for its practicality - be prepared to live with some of the quirks of the CS however - opening the passenger door to open the boot..not seeing out the rear screen or the mirrors for the first half hour in the morning, inability to carry more than one passenger, sweating like a pig in the summer with no air con and avoiding crisp packets in the road cos of the ride quality. the worst is being sat in traffic and being unable to move in your seat to rearrange yourself (if you know what i mean) - the only solution is to stop and get out[]

Matt

 

[ClubSport 911]

I have all this and more in the 911 CS.....no worries. The 968 is luxurious next to the Clubbie