981 envy, upgrade journey, flirting with a 991.2 GT3, choosing my 982 GT4
- Thread starter Mattfsan
- Start date
The thing is (imo) if you want to change the headers or the link pipes you have to remap the car anyway - otherwise you lose power and it runs sick, mainly because some sensors are unplugged and some are getting strange readings - the car will adjust over time but in my experience it won't run right. I'm certain that the car was actually putting out less HP with aftermarket headers and link pipes and no remap - it just doesn't like it. You also need to plug in a nasty little device to clear the CEL. Not a fan of plugging a cheap piece of tech into the car to spam clear errors!
Plus I want the valves open but I don't want the symposer. I think after you modify the exhaust this way the additional noise from the symposer gets amplified and sounds odd - especially if you do the headers with high flow cats.
Yup 9m wheels do look good and the price shocked me too. Hopefully the wider fronts don't cause any issues with catching etc.
Those are the ones! Nitrons... Will see what RPM is charging for the MR coilovers and do a price comparison. Still waiting for them to get back to me with a price for getting the gear ratios done. Will give them a ring tomorrow.
Yep, car is going…. either as built, or returned to stock and then parts sold… offering significant saving over buying new from Porsche.
Extensive parts list you might want to cherry-pick from including Surface Transforms brake rotors.
Sent you a PM - definitely interested. I'm currently getting prices etc to send my car down to RPM and get the CW&P done... Seems like a good opportunity to do some other bits and pieces
Ah sorry I missed the direct message.
Have replied.
I've been busy - thought I'd drop an update of the latest changes to the car.
So the most recent changes include:
- Adding the full MR kit to the car
- RPM's crown wheel & pinion added to the car (shortened gear ratio's)
- Set of new Surface Transforms carbon ceramics
- Headers added back to the car with a stage 3 remap
- 9M silenced exhaust tips
- 4RS underbody fins near the front wheels
Coming soon:
- 4RS style carbon fibre wing
Thoughts on all the changes
MR Kit & 4RS aero
Definitely makes the car feel a lot more serious. Small bumps do become somewhat tooth shattering but I did lower the dampening by about 15% for street driving (including some narrow bumpy country roads) and it felt much better. I could probably do with lowering them a bit more - brilliant kit though. Corners that felt fast with the stock setup feel trivial now. The car overall is definitely way more capable.
RPM's crown wheel & pinion
I think I'd notice more of a difference if I were to go back to the old ratios. To give some feedback now I really have to think about how it felt before and the frustration that caused at times. But when I do cast my mind back I do realise how much of a positive impact it has had on the car. Especially in 2nd gear when street driving. With the old ratios you would generally be turning a corner in 2nd gear unless you were hooning around, so you were maybe doing 20mph, but then to rev the engine out you'd have to climb all the way to 90 and it felt sluggish before at low RPM until you hit the power band, so you either had to gear down and drive like a total savage, or ride out the entire second gear which felt a bit frustrating. With the new setup (and obviously a ton of other changes including the LWFW) it feels way more immediate, responsive and lively (duh). It doesn't feel like I need to gear down at 20-30 mph anymore. There's a few small similar examples to this which is what makes it worth it in my opinion.
The one thing to bear in mind with a loud setup like mine (where you may have had the headers and link pipes done) is that it's a lot harder to drive conservatively. Obviously this is in conjunction with all the changes to the car as well, but whereas before the gear ratios were long and you could cycle through gears in a much more relaxed manner - even if you are only revving to 4k RPM to keep the valves closed - you are now cycling through gears very quickly. The car has changed from being somewhat of a comfortable and calm experience until you rev the socks off it to 'always on' if that makes sense. It wants you to go fast at all times, because you won't really enjoy going slow very much. If I want to go through all the gears to avoid the valves opening when entering the motorway I will be shifting into 6th gear as I hit 70 to avoid exceeding 4k RPM. That's a lot of shifting in a short amount of time. I'll probably have to adjust this and shift from 2nd to 4th, and 4th to 6th - but then you might end up hearing more of the mechanical noise from the LWFW.
Interesting how dramatically it changes seemingly small things in how you drive. Overall I'm very happy I did it and no desire to go back at this point. I wanted the car to be more aggressive and wild, and in conjunction with all the other changes I've done that's exactly what you get.
Surface Transforms - carbon ceramics
Awesome. I can't speak to their track use yet, but they are very cool discs. Literally. After hooning it around a bit for 40 minutes I can park the car and touch a disc with my bare finger. Feels like a hot cup of coffee but I don't leave a top layer of skin behind - incredible. Washing the car is glorious, they don't rust. Wiping down my rims is glorious - there's almost no brake dust.
Braking performance while cold feels the same as it did with the steel brakes to me, I don't think the old 'they are only good when hot' claim applies anymore. Definitely recommend these but they do cost a whopping £17k. This was a little eye watering, but eventually when you pull yourself back upon your chair and your heart rate returns to normal, they do make for a phenomenal brake system. Phenomenal, what a great word.
Headers and stage 3 remap
This is the part of the post that you might question my sanity. I love the headers, I do. And I instantly regretted taking them off and putting the Akra link pipes on. But after putting them back on I instantly regretted it again because they are too loud - especially with the remaps to keep the valves open at all times when pressing the button to open valves. I think it bothered me less with the original gear ratio's, because the gears were so long that going over 4k RPM was an event. You wanted the beans, the car wanted the beans, the valves opened and you heard the beans. With the valves open right through the range, and the car basically always ready to go, it just feels like driving conservatively isn't an option anymore.
Now I mentioned above that I wanted the car aggressive and wild, BUT, if I can't get on track then it totally defeats the purpose. I'm chatting to the owner of Soul Performance, we should have a call sometime this week hopefully. Maybe their resonated link pipes will help? Maybe I can look at 300 - 400 cell cats instead of going from deafening 200 cell cats to muffled, monotone and restricted 800 cell cats. If I could get the car to 110db, and lower it to 95db with silenced tips I'd be over the moon - but I'm not sure silenced tips do diddly squat to be honest with you. With that in mind let's move on.
9M silenced tips
Now bear in mind that I am but a man, and I can only hold a DB meter out the side of the drivers side while revving the car, that's how I measured the volume - but I don't see how this would be louder than standing directly behind the exhaust when they do static measurements.
Without the silenced tips I saw over 120db while revving the car (this is with the stock backbox by the way)
With the silenced tips I saw at least 120db while revving the car
Don't get me wrong, everything I said before is absolutely true - there is no drone worth caring about inside the car. With the valves closed you wouldn't believe you're in the same car, whatever black magic Porsche works on their backbox it is very good. The car sounds cool (to me at least) but you don't have a snowballs chance of doing any track days with this setup unless you stay under 4k RPM with the valves closed - but as I mentioned before you'll be shifting into 6th at 70mph if you want to avoid the valves opening up and singing the song of our people. I'd almost argue that retailers for these exhaust systems should be obligated to give this warning when selling these kits.
Anyway, because I'm a bit soft in the head and apparently a slow learner, I'll be chatting to Soul to see if they have any ideas, and if not I guess I'll be dusting off ye olde 800 celleth header and Akra linketh pipeths once more. Learn from my stupidity and save yourself a few grand on remaps and refits. Or just buy a 981 GT4.
I'll follow up with my impressions of each of the workshops I've used to do all the upgrades on my car - just wrapping up a few things with one before I give my feedback. I'll also post a couple pictures when I fit the new 4RS style wing to the car.
For now, he's how she looks currently with the MR gurney and ST carbon ceramics:
So the most recent changes include:
- Adding the full MR kit to the car
- RPM's crown wheel & pinion added to the car (shortened gear ratio's)
- Set of new Surface Transforms carbon ceramics
- Headers added back to the car with a stage 3 remap
- 9M silenced exhaust tips
- 4RS underbody fins near the front wheels
Coming soon:
- 4RS style carbon fibre wing
Thoughts on all the changes
MR Kit & 4RS aero
Definitely makes the car feel a lot more serious. Small bumps do become somewhat tooth shattering but I did lower the dampening by about 15% for street driving (including some narrow bumpy country roads) and it felt much better. I could probably do with lowering them a bit more - brilliant kit though. Corners that felt fast with the stock setup feel trivial now. The car overall is definitely way more capable.
RPM's crown wheel & pinion
I think I'd notice more of a difference if I were to go back to the old ratios. To give some feedback now I really have to think about how it felt before and the frustration that caused at times. But when I do cast my mind back I do realise how much of a positive impact it has had on the car. Especially in 2nd gear when street driving. With the old ratios you would generally be turning a corner in 2nd gear unless you were hooning around, so you were maybe doing 20mph, but then to rev the engine out you'd have to climb all the way to 90 and it felt sluggish before at low RPM until you hit the power band, so you either had to gear down and drive like a total savage, or ride out the entire second gear which felt a bit frustrating. With the new setup (and obviously a ton of other changes including the LWFW) it feels way more immediate, responsive and lively (duh). It doesn't feel like I need to gear down at 20-30 mph anymore. There's a few small similar examples to this which is what makes it worth it in my opinion.
The one thing to bear in mind with a loud setup like mine (where you may have had the headers and link pipes done) is that it's a lot harder to drive conservatively. Obviously this is in conjunction with all the changes to the car as well, but whereas before the gear ratios were long and you could cycle through gears in a much more relaxed manner - even if you are only revving to 4k RPM to keep the valves closed - you are now cycling through gears very quickly. The car has changed from being somewhat of a comfortable and calm experience until you rev the socks off it to 'always on' if that makes sense. It wants you to go fast at all times, because you won't really enjoy going slow very much. If I want to go through all the gears to avoid the valves opening when entering the motorway I will be shifting into 6th gear as I hit 70 to avoid exceeding 4k RPM. That's a lot of shifting in a short amount of time. I'll probably have to adjust this and shift from 2nd to 4th, and 4th to 6th - but then you might end up hearing more of the mechanical noise from the LWFW.
Interesting how dramatically it changes seemingly small things in how you drive. Overall I'm very happy I did it and no desire to go back at this point. I wanted the car to be more aggressive and wild, and in conjunction with all the other changes I've done that's exactly what you get.
Surface Transforms - carbon ceramics
Awesome. I can't speak to their track use yet, but they are very cool discs. Literally. After hooning it around a bit for 40 minutes I can park the car and touch a disc with my bare finger. Feels like a hot cup of coffee but I don't leave a top layer of skin behind - incredible. Washing the car is glorious, they don't rust. Wiping down my rims is glorious - there's almost no brake dust.
Braking performance while cold feels the same as it did with the steel brakes to me, I don't think the old 'they are only good when hot' claim applies anymore. Definitely recommend these but they do cost a whopping £17k. This was a little eye watering, but eventually when you pull yourself back upon your chair and your heart rate returns to normal, they do make for a phenomenal brake system. Phenomenal, what a great word.
Headers and stage 3 remap
This is the part of the post that you might question my sanity. I love the headers, I do. And I instantly regretted taking them off and putting the Akra link pipes on. But after putting them back on I instantly regretted it again because they are too loud - especially with the remaps to keep the valves open at all times when pressing the button to open valves. I think it bothered me less with the original gear ratio's, because the gears were so long that going over 4k RPM was an event. You wanted the beans, the car wanted the beans, the valves opened and you heard the beans. With the valves open right through the range, and the car basically always ready to go, it just feels like driving conservatively isn't an option anymore.
Now I mentioned above that I wanted the car aggressive and wild, BUT, if I can't get on track then it totally defeats the purpose. I'm chatting to the owner of Soul Performance, we should have a call sometime this week hopefully. Maybe their resonated link pipes will help? Maybe I can look at 300 - 400 cell cats instead of going from deafening 200 cell cats to muffled, monotone and restricted 800 cell cats. If I could get the car to 110db, and lower it to 95db with silenced tips I'd be over the moon - but I'm not sure silenced tips do diddly squat to be honest with you. With that in mind let's move on.
9M silenced tips
Now bear in mind that I am but a man, and I can only hold a DB meter out the side of the drivers side while revving the car, that's how I measured the volume - but I don't see how this would be louder than standing directly behind the exhaust when they do static measurements.
Without the silenced tips I saw over 120db while revving the car (this is with the stock backbox by the way)
With the silenced tips I saw at least 120db while revving the car
Don't get me wrong, everything I said before is absolutely true - there is no drone worth caring about inside the car. With the valves closed you wouldn't believe you're in the same car, whatever black magic Porsche works on their backbox it is very good. The car sounds cool (to me at least) but you don't have a snowballs chance of doing any track days with this setup unless you stay under 4k RPM with the valves closed - but as I mentioned before you'll be shifting into 6th at 70mph if you want to avoid the valves opening up and singing the song of our people. I'd almost argue that retailers for these exhaust systems should be obligated to give this warning when selling these kits.
Anyway, because I'm a bit soft in the head and apparently a slow learner, I'll be chatting to Soul to see if they have any ideas, and if not I guess I'll be dusting off ye olde 800 celleth header and Akra linketh pipeths once more. Learn from my stupidity and save yourself a few grand on remaps and refits. Or just buy a 981 GT4.
I'll follow up with my impressions of each of the workshops I've used to do all the upgrades on my car - just wrapping up a few things with one before I give my feedback. I'll also post a couple pictures when I fit the new 4RS style wing to the car.
For now, he's how she looks currently with the MR gurney and ST carbon ceramics:
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Interesting stuff about the lowered ratios, they don't sound like something I'd be after for my car but it would be good to hear what you think of them on track. With the LWFW too, and if the surface is a bit damp, I could see that the car would be a bit of a handful to drive.
I'm not sure how you can definitely recommend Surface Transforms at £17k - at current prices that's over 20% of the price of the car!!!
I'm not sure how you can definitely recommend Surface Transforms at £17k - at current prices that's over 20% of the price of the car!!!
Nahhhhhh I think she'll be ok. The car feels more composed than ever. I reckon you'd just need to avoid having a lead foot around corners but there's also a large gap between me and someone who has a clue what they are talking about so who knows
By that logic there's a lot of things I don't recommend
Cost aside I think they are great. Significantly less rotational force, better braking performance, significantly less heat generated, less brake dust, no rust when washing the car - what's not to like? There's probably something to be said about their value compared to the regular ceramics (which are also pricy) and the ability to resurface the ST's. Especially since tracking the car will lower the lifespan considerably compared to regular driving. They are also less likely to get chipped than regular carbon ceramics.
Well I know how easy it was to get the back end out on my car around a slightly damp Silverstone last month, hence my comment!
Not sure you can just say "aside from the cost" when it's so prohibitive. My full set of PFCs was just over £3k, so I can get 5 complete sets and a couple of sets of pads (or plenty of valets to clean off the brake dust!) for the same price, and they are faultless during a full day on track. Not sure I'd notice the weight difference, I don't with PCCBs. Resurfacing STs isn't all that cheap either I believe, although possible 2-3 times I think.
Anyhoo, it's all about making the car what you want it to be as you've clearly done which is awesome. I hope you continue to enjoy it
Not sure you can just say "aside from the cost" when it's so prohibitive. My full set of PFCs was just over £3k, so I can get 5 complete sets and a couple of sets of pads (or plenty of valets to clean off the brake dust!
) for the same price, and they are faultless during a full day on track. Not sure I'd notice the weight difference, I don't with PCCBs. Resurfacing STs isn't all that cheap either I believe, although possible 2-3 times I think.Anyhoo, it's all about making the car what you want it to be as you've clearly done which is awesome. I hope you continue to enjoy it
Yeah I hear you but wet weather will always be more tricky. I was more worried about my back end in the wet when I had the Cup 2's on. I got a set of PS4S's for street use I feel a lot more confident - I'd use those on a wet track for sure and save the Cup 2's for dry days. What tyres are you using? I'm also getting the 4RS rear wing, so while it's not that much additional downforce it will be a bit more on the back end.
I dunno, a significant contributor to lap times is brake performance, I've seen carbon ceramics stop in 30 meters shorter distance than steel discs, that's quite significant - particularly for overtaking. I also think the biggest benefit is heat - you'll get more out of them. But granted both of this things are a non-issue at my current experience level.
When I say 'aside from the cost' and 'by that logic there's a lot of things I don't recommend' I mean like, do we consider GT4's budget or bang for buck cars (genuinely curious on your thoughts here btw)? Compared to brand new production cars absolutely, but you could pick up a 2017 BMW M4 right now for 24k. I'm pretty sure you could make a pretty formidable track weapon if you spent the difference of your GT4 modifying it. You could probably mod a lot of cars to be track monsters spending that sort of money or less. So from a money-to-lap-time perspective they probably aren't 'worth it', particularly in my case I don't think any of these things will matter nearly as much toward lap times as becoming a better driver will - it's all just about making this the best GT4 it can be. I didn't spend an extra 70k on a GT3 or a 4RS, so that was my budget for making this car unique and special, and getting it as close to being a 'manual' 4RS as possible. I just need to get the noise under control.
BTW I think I saw some talk about GT4 vs 4RS lap times in your post and since we're on the topic of money to (potential) performance. There's a youtuber with just an MR kit (I don't think he has any other mods, but he has a PDK car) who I believe got 7.01 around Nordschleife - 31 sec faster than the best standard GT4 time (listed on wikipedia lap times) and 3 sec faster than Jörg Bergmeister took a standard GT4 RS round. Jörg Bergmeister also got 6.58 in a 4RS MR - only 3 sec faster. Last person I spoke to said he thought he saw 476hp on the dyno readout for my car (but I'll believe it when I see it) - waiting for them to send it over. Anyway if it's true and I'm within 25hp of a 4RS, then it's interesting to ponder what times the car might be capable of - assuming everything done to the car works well as a package. But bearing in mind that including the carbon ceramics it'd cost about 140-150k (including the car) to have one set up like mine, then the price to performance compared to a 4RS would be pretty good. But I think 9m has a 500hp 4 cylinder Cayman that's a bit of a beast as well - would be interesting to see what sort of times that would set compared to a 4RS and what the cost would be. I'd also like to see an SSR 4RS time, but I think that kit costs up to 40k depending what you get.
As you say though, I didn't get this car or modify it because it's affordable, economical, practical, or value for money, I got it because I think it's cool
I dunno, a significant contributor to lap times is brake performance, I've seen carbon ceramics stop in 30 meters shorter distance than steel discs, that's quite significant - particularly for overtaking. I also think the biggest benefit is heat - you'll get more out of them. But granted both of this things are a non-issue at my current experience level.
When I say 'aside from the cost' and 'by that logic there's a lot of things I don't recommend' I mean like, do we consider GT4's budget or bang for buck cars (genuinely curious on your thoughts here btw)? Compared to brand new production cars absolutely, but you could pick up a 2017 BMW M4 right now for 24k. I'm pretty sure you could make a pretty formidable track weapon if you spent the difference of your GT4 modifying it. You could probably mod a lot of cars to be track monsters spending that sort of money or less. So from a money-to-lap-time perspective they probably aren't 'worth it', particularly in my case I don't think any of these things will matter nearly as much toward lap times as becoming a better driver will - it's all just about making this the best GT4 it can be. I didn't spend an extra 70k on a GT3 or a 4RS, so that was my budget for making this car unique and special, and getting it as close to being a 'manual' 4RS as possible. I just need to get the noise under control.
BTW I think I saw some talk about GT4 vs 4RS lap times in your post and since we're on the topic of money to (potential) performance. There's a youtuber with just an MR kit (I don't think he has any other mods, but he has a PDK car) who I believe got 7.01 around Nordschleife - 31 sec faster than the best standard GT4 time (listed on wikipedia lap times) and 3 sec faster than Jörg Bergmeister took a standard GT4 RS round. Jörg Bergmeister also got 6.58 in a 4RS MR - only 3 sec faster. Last person I spoke to said he thought he saw 476hp on the dyno readout for my car (but I'll believe it when I see it) - waiting for them to send it over. Anyway if it's true and I'm within 25hp of a 4RS, then it's interesting to ponder what times the car might be capable of - assuming everything done to the car works well as a package. But bearing in mind that including the carbon ceramics it'd cost about 140-150k (including the car) to have one set up like mine, then the price to performance compared to a 4RS would be pretty good. But I think 9m has a 500hp 4 cylinder Cayman that's a bit of a beast as well - would be interesting to see what sort of times that would set compared to a 4RS and what the cost would be. I'd also like to see an SSR 4RS time, but I think that kit costs up to 40k depending what you get.
As you say though, I didn't get this car or modify it because it's affordable, economical, practical, or value for money, I got it because I think it's cool
I use Cup2s on during track season then switch to PS4Ss for the rest of the year (I have two sets of wheels).
On a car like the GT4, with really good standard steel brakes in a good size, you're not getting 30m more stopping distance with ceramics whatever the type. Both options will kick in the ABS at will due to losing tyre grip, and this is the limiting factor. Heat is definitely an issue with the standard steel brakes on track, but with braided hoses, race fluid and good pads/discs it becomes a non-issue. I have no problems at all over a 20min session on a hot day - no fading, no spongy pedal etc.
Unlike an M4, or any saloon car/hot hatch the GT4 is a mid-engined two-seater sports car. At £70k they are great value for money our of the box, there's a reason why PCGB track days always have plenty of them. They're not budget level cars - I think they're great value for money and very capable of getting round a circuit in a decent time with a good driver
On a car like the GT4, with really good standard steel brakes in a good size, you're not getting 30m more stopping distance with ceramics whatever the type. Both options will kick in the ABS at will due to losing tyre grip, and this is the limiting factor. Heat is definitely an issue with the standard steel brakes on track, but with braided hoses, race fluid and good pads/discs it becomes a non-issue. I have no problems at all over a 20min session on a hot day - no fading, no spongy pedal etc.
Unlike an M4, or any saloon car/hot hatch the GT4 is a mid-engined two-seater sports car. At £70k they are great value for money our of the box, there's a reason why PCGB track days always have plenty of them. They're not budget level cars - I think they're great value for money and very capable of getting round a circuit in a decent time with a good driver
A GT4 is a great bang for buck proposition with a few choice mods - and really suits people of all levels. It can provide a brilliant experience for the newbie and the seasoned pro - because it just does pretty much everything really well and is very well balanced package.
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