981 GTS Condenser. What is the point of having a Warranty.
- Thread starter Twinfan
- Start date
Whiskey Ron
New member
Thanks for the reply.
Fully understand that part and normally I'd agree.
My point this time though is slightly different. We only got the car last Sept, and really only had it since this March and only put 2,700 miles on it. Are we being unreasonable asking for some help with costs from the OPC considering this...?
Harsh i think, but it is what it is i suppose.
Fully understand that part and normally I'd agree.
My point this time though is slightly different. We only got the car last Sept, and really only had it since this March and only put 2,700 miles on it. Are we being unreasonable asking for some help with costs from the OPC considering this...?
Harsh i think, but it is what it is i suppose.
It's a used car which the OPC puts the Porsche Extended Warranty on so they expect that to cover anything that goes wrong. Looking at it from their point of view, if the car was fine last Sept they have no way of knowing how it's been treated over the last 10 months and unfortunately warranties don't cover everything.
The only other thing you could do is explain the situation to Porsche GB Customer Support and see what they say?
Good luck...
The only other thing you could do is explain the situation to Porsche GB Customer Support and see what they say?
Good luck...
Whiskey Ron
New member
I fully understand what you mean about them not knowing what has happened to it in the last 10 month's, but it is 9 months and only 2,700 miles and we didn't store it in salt water, so it would have been nice to get some help with the repair.
Thanks for your help Twinfan.
I have contacted Porsche GB and they are looking into it and will get back. Not holding my breath.
Thanks for your help Twinfan.
I have contacted Porsche GB and they are looking into it and will get back. Not holding my breath.
Whiskey Ron
New member
Hi to you all. Any help would really be appreciated.
We decided last year to join the Porsche ownership experience. Long story short, after more than a year looking for 981 GTS finally got one last September. We got our Porsche from OPC with 2 year Warranty and only 11,000 miles.
Car lived in professional storage for 5 months on trickle charger with exercise every couple weeks. Came out twice. Once for an MOT and one other time to see family.
Since March this year we have been driving the car and thoroughly enjoying the experience. We have put 2,700 miles on the car since we owned it. Then one day I go to put the air con on................................ now some of you from what I have read already are smiling right about now, and know exactly what's coming.
Air con not working and just hissing sound. Took it to my local OPC (different from the one we bought the car from) and booked it in. It would be £150 for a re-gas or free under warranty if found to be leaking. Not bad either way I thought. Free would be great obviously, but I didn't care about paying £150 either.
Long story short. Everything is off the car at the front for full investigation, and condensers found to be the culprit. Some rot etc creating blockages and leaking. Basically needing these replacing. BUT as the problem was found to be as a result of leaves and crud building up, then in this particular instance then NO it is not covered. Guesstimate was apprx £1600. I say guesstimate because they were waiting on parts prices and also phoned the OPC we bought the car from asking if they would help in any way. I also phoned the OPC we got the car from.
The original OPC where we bought the car from didn't want to know. Because when they put the warranty on the car it passed their 111 point check and they wouldn't have smelled gas either (apparently). They don't want to know and don't want to even contribute to any of the costs to repair and put right. For a car that has only been driven for 2,700 miles I find this disgusting. I used to work with metal on a daily basis and the only thing that rots that fast is a Lancia from the 1980's.
Firstly I'd like to ask if anyone thinks I am being unreasonable asking for help from the OPC, and also expecting the warranty to cover this type of repair considering the bad design and lack of grills.
I'd also like to ask if anyone else has had similar experience and how they dealt with it.
Thank you.
We decided last year to join the Porsche ownership experience. Long story short, after more than a year looking for 981 GTS finally got one last September. We got our Porsche from OPC with 2 year Warranty and only 11,000 miles.
Car lived in professional storage for 5 months on trickle charger with exercise every couple weeks. Came out twice. Once for an MOT and one other time to see family.
Since March this year we have been driving the car and thoroughly enjoying the experience. We have put 2,700 miles on the car since we owned it. Then one day I go to put the air con on................................ now some of you from what I have read already are smiling right about now, and know exactly what's coming.
Air con not working and just hissing sound. Took it to my local OPC (different from the one we bought the car from) and booked it in. It would be £150 for a re-gas or free under warranty if found to be leaking. Not bad either way I thought. Free would be great obviously, but I didn't care about paying £150 either.
Long story short. Everything is off the car at the front for full investigation, and condensers found to be the culprit. Some rot etc creating blockages and leaking. Basically needing these replacing. BUT as the problem was found to be as a result of leaves and crud building up, then in this particular instance then NO it is not covered. Guesstimate was apprx £1600. I say guesstimate because they were waiting on parts prices and also phoned the OPC we bought the car from asking if they would help in any way. I also phoned the OPC we got the car from.
The original OPC where we bought the car from didn't want to know. Because when they put the warranty on the car it passed their 111 point check and they wouldn't have smelled gas either (apparently). They don't want to know and don't want to even contribute to any of the costs to repair and put right. For a car that has only been driven for 2,700 miles I find this disgusting. I used to work with metal on a daily basis and the only thing that rots that fast is a Lancia from the 1980's.
Firstly I'd like to ask if anyone thinks I am being unreasonable asking for help from the OPC, and also expecting the warranty to cover this type of repair considering the bad design and lack of grills.
I'd also like to ask if anyone else has had similar experience and how they dealt with it.
Thank you.
Andrew,
You may get some ‘good will’ payment from the dealer, but as Dave has pointed out, as an insurance policy there are specific conditions laid out in the Extended Warranty. Having said that, I think you have a good case for pleading mitigating circumstances.
Incidentally, apparently the factory warranty will cover condenser damage due to corrosion but not impact damage. Figure that out!
Jeff
You may get some ‘good will’ payment from the dealer, but as Dave has pointed out, as an insurance policy there are specific conditions laid out in the Extended Warranty. Having said that, I think you have a good case for pleading mitigating circumstances.
Incidentally, apparently the factory warranty will cover condenser damage due to corrosion but not impact damage. Figure that out!
Jeff
Whiskey Ron
New member
They already said no payment of any kind. Done. Porsche GB are taking a look next week, but judging by our call, I can't see anything happening really.
Like I said though, it is what it is. Sad, but that's it I think. I'll end up doing it myself, but that isn't the point.
What I was curious about was, warranty or no warranty, considering that through rot on the condensers which is physically impossible to build up and eat through the metal in 2,700 miles, should they have offered some kind of good will payment like you suggested they might. I think they should. A used car bought from a main dealer that they stood by and said this is a good car to buy, that has condensers that rot through within 2,700 miles, should in my opinion step up a little bit at least.
The response given to me was, that this happens and could very well happen within those 2,700 miles, so it's not our problem any more, as they don't know what has happened within those miles. Fair enough. So are Porsche saying that every 2,700 miles driven you may need almost a complete air con overhaul at £1600. If you drive average miles then that might be £6400 per year on air con alone, which is ridiculous. No because they don't rot through in that short time frame. Hence my post.
Thanks for the replies all the same. I'll be done when the warranty ends at the end of next year, and give Ferrari a go. I hear they swap everything for free no arguments. Is that true. [
].
Like I said though, it is what it is. Sad, but that's it I think. I'll end up doing it myself, but that isn't the point.
What I was curious about was, warranty or no warranty, considering that through rot on the condensers which is physically impossible to build up and eat through the metal in 2,700 miles, should they have offered some kind of good will payment like you suggested they might. I think they should. A used car bought from a main dealer that they stood by and said this is a good car to buy, that has condensers that rot through within 2,700 miles, should in my opinion step up a little bit at least.
The response given to me was, that this happens and could very well happen within those 2,700 miles, so it's not our problem any more, as they don't know what has happened within those miles. Fair enough. So are Porsche saying that every 2,700 miles driven you may need almost a complete air con overhaul at £1600. If you drive average miles then that might be £6400 per year on air con alone, which is ridiculous. No because they don't rot through in that short time frame. Hence my post.
Thanks for the replies all the same. I'll be done when the warranty ends at the end of next year, and give Ferrari a go. I hear they swap everything for free no arguments. Is that true. [
].
That’s clearly the case Dave but Porsche can be accused of neglecting to protect vulnerable components, especially when a simple remedy is available and which they use regularly on the GT cars. Compounding that, as in Andrew’s case the dealers are deriving a significant amount of revenue from replacing the damaged components and recharging the a/c system.Twinfan said:
All this from a company supposedly renowned for ‘engineering excellence’.
Jeff
The reality here is that the selling OPC didn't inspect the condition of the condensers, which were probably already seriously corroded.
Whiskey Ron
New member
Thank you. Those are the words I should have used somewhere earlier. That just about sums it up.Geoff_Fields said:
When they said they didn't know how those miles were put on, that was my point to them. But they said it had passed their 111 point check so NO. It was fine 9 months ago, and therefore something has happened in these last 2,700 miles that caused the rot? I don't live in the sea. I'm not Sponge Bob. Even a complete moron with an IQ in single digits and no mechanical knowledge can work out condensers don't rot through in that short time span.
How can you prove it one way or the other, and you can't really. Common sense tells you it's impossible, but warranty legal speak from Porsche just says we don't want to hear it, and please bend over sir.
Whiskey Ron
New member
That's actually a great idea. I'm just leaving to pick it up now as it happens, but next week I'll make some enquiries about doing just that.
simon.leney@hotmail.co.uk
New member
I think OP is quite right to be outraged by this treatment.
What it comes down to is that after 9 months of ownership and less than 3k miles both condenser rads have failed. Is that correct?
And the reason is the build up of debris, which I should expect must have been there for some time before purchase to have caused such damage. Is that also correct?
And I understand that this issue is a known problem with these cars? Is that correct?
(If this sounds like a court cross examination that's the intention)
If the answers to these questions are "yes either the supplying dealership failed to supply a car of reasonable merchantable quality, or failed to inspect it proper before sale, or ( if the previous servicing dealer) failed to carry out proper preventative maintenance.
Forget the warranty argument - I'd issue a small claims court summons, for the cost of repair plus damages for loss of enjoyment and use of the car, against the original dealership. If you have an experts report to support you so much the better.
Refusing a a warranty claim is easy - ignoring a court summons gets expensive and as they will almost certainly want to engage lawyers rather than deal with it themselves and since costs aren't recoverable at the levels we are talking about, I think you could expect an offer to settle....
What it comes down to is that after 9 months of ownership and less than 3k miles both condenser rads have failed. Is that correct?
And the reason is the build up of debris, which I should expect must have been there for some time before purchase to have caused such damage. Is that also correct?
And I understand that this issue is a known problem with these cars? Is that correct?
(If this sounds like a court cross examination that's the intention)
If the answers to these questions are "yes either the supplying dealership failed to supply a car of reasonable merchantable quality, or failed to inspect it proper before sale, or ( if the previous servicing dealer) failed to carry out proper preventative maintenance.
Forget the warranty argument - I'd issue a small claims court summons, for the cost of repair plus damages for loss of enjoyment and use of the car, against the original dealership. If you have an experts report to support you so much the better.
Refusing a a warranty claim is easy - ignoring a court summons gets expensive and as they will almost certainly want to engage lawyers rather than deal with it themselves and since costs aren't recoverable at the levels we are talking about, I think you could expect an offer to settle....
Sounds like unreasonable behaviour by the selling OPC to me. It has been a known design issue since 986/996 which is why many of us have Zunsport grills but that's off topic. Seems odd because over the years I have seen lots of vehicles allegedly being prepared for sale by OPCs which have the front end completely disassembled and the rads/condensers inspected and/or replaced before sale as necessary. Maybe standards have slipped or this OPC didn't bother. Some I wouldn't trust to do this, others I would.
AlistairF
PCGB Member
I agree with the previous comments. Unlikely the the corrosion has happened just during your tenure. I had a failure last year (5 year old car) and was pleasantly surprised when the OPC advised it was a warranty issue, so there is history of condenser failures which have been agreed as warrantable.I do have a general issue with Porsche in terms of their service schedules in that if there are maintenance issues that can cause failure why isn't that task on the service list ? When you have to take the front off the car to clean something that smacks of an inherent design issue. Why not build in an access panel underneath for example ?
I had a short debate with my OPC about cleaning the 2 hood drains on my Boxster. I was paying £1000 for a service and they wanted £150 to clean them...or they would put a note on my service record (I realise the car's electronics can be flooded...). If it's so critical why is this not an item they do automatically when servicing ? They did it after I had a grumble. Porsche OPC's are infuriating...
One other thing is they may say it is just one condenser...I paid for my second one to be done at the same time to save the hassle. (and it might have been out of warranty at that point).
I had a short debate with my OPC about cleaning the 2 hood drains on my Boxster. I was paying £1000 for a service and they wanted £150 to clean them...or they would put a note on my service record (I realise the car's electronics can be flooded...). If it's so critical why is this not an item they do automatically when servicing ? They did it after I had a grumble. Porsche OPC's are infuriating...
One other thing is they may say it is just one condenser...I paid for my second one to be done at the same time to save the hassle. (and it might have been out of warranty at that point).
See what Porsche GB come back with but I wouldn’t hold out much hope there.
I think the threat of a small claims court action could force the hand of the supplying dealer.
Build up you case from the engineers report and get as many people on here (and elsewhere) who have had the same problem.
You could also start a poll on here asking who has had:
[ol][*]Goodwill from there OPC towards the cost of replacement.[*]Full and free replacement.[*]Nothing at all.[/ol]It will all help to build up your case.
I think the threat of a small claims court action could force the hand of the supplying dealer.
Build up you case from the engineers report and get as many people on here (and elsewhere) who have had the same problem.
You could also start a poll on here asking who has had:
[ol][*]Goodwill from there OPC towards the cost of replacement.[*]Full and free replacement.[*]Nothing at all.[/ol]It will all help to build up your case.
I would also say that you trust their expertise. This is a common fault and the OPC selling the car should be competent enough to know that this could be a problem and should have checked these or at the very least cleaned them out. I would be complaining and going right to the top. Basic competence as far as I am concerned, the car is low mileage and should be covered.
Whiskey Ron
New member
simon.leney@hotmail.co.uk said:
Yes, both condensers. Strange for both to go in 2,700 miles if they inspected it thoroughly. Maybe it's a rare coincidence, but whatever the reason, both?
Yes build up of debris is what they said the reason was. Yes I agree it must have been there some time to affect it this fast and also in both.
Thanks for your answer. I'll definitely be seeing what can be done about this and keep an update on this thread. Never posted before, but always come here, but if they can sort this out for me, I'll be joining the club, enjoying Porsche ownership and posting more.
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