987.1 Cayman S - Light bore scoring cylinder six. Fine or walk away?

[js24]

Hi all,

Complete newbie to the world of Porsche, so my first post. And I know, it's a question that's been asked a million and one times... bore scoring on a 987 Cayman S.

Bit of background:

I've been searching for a month or so for a 987 Cayman - and I found pretty much my ideal 987.1 Cayman S, with new coolant radiators, hoses and crossover pipes, water pump brakes all around, AC condensers, and it’s sold by a Porsche specialist with a decent reputation.

Anyway, the experience has been pretty great, he’s had plenty of time for my questions and was happy to include a borescope for my piece of mind before selling the car.

The car has zero of the usual symptoms associated with bore scoring.

Basically, I’ve agreed to buy the car subject to a clean borescope, and I’ve just received images from the borescope carried out by the seller.

Borescope:

He tells me that if there is ever any scoring it usually would appear in cylinder six first, as it’s furthest from the water pump and therefore the hottest cylinder.

Anyway, he started in cylinder six and found a small area of light marks in one 10-15mm wide arc of the cylinder (at the top where forces are greatest).

The image is magnified quite a bit to show it clearer:



The magnification probably makes it look a lot worse at first glance - it’s 10-15mm wide , and he tells me that this light amount of wear is typical for pretty much all these engines and does not affect operation or performance. He added that it’s a lot better than most he sees.

Cylinder five came back without any marking:



So due to that, he tells me that will therefore be the case with all the other cylinders (as they are closer to the water pump).


Has anyone got any experience? Is a small, light bit of scoring like this just the usual? Is it something that you’d find in pretty much all 987.1’s?

Or is this something that shows the need for an engine rebuild is inevitable on this car?

I’m happy that the car is otherwise in great condition and the seller has been absolutely brilliant - couldn’t recommend him enough. But obviously concerned that, even if this is a minor bit of scoring, it could lead to a huge bill to rebuild the engine or seriously harm my chances of selling the car in the future…

Thanks for the help all.

 

[RHT45]

And the current mileage is?

 

[Motorhead]

I’m sure there are hundreds - if not thousands - of Gen1 Caymans and Boxsters running around with a degree of bore scoring without their owners being aware of it and without evidence of high oil consumption and smoking, so I think it’s impossible to give any hard and fast advice in your case.

I don’t know where you’re located but Hartech Automotive in Bolton really are the go-to specialists in this respect, so it would be worth speaking to them. There was an excellent online presentation from them to the Club a short while ago and I recall them saying that a high level of experience is required for anyone carrying out and assessing bore scoring issues, and only you can decide if your seller falls into that category. They did say that they often receive engines for repair with reported bore scoring issues which on inspection by themselves proved to be erroneous.

It sounds as though it’s a nice car which has been well prepared by a reputable seller so there’s no reason to believe that it will be a troublesome purchase, but there’s always going to be a level of uncertainty. If your budget will allow it, a 987.2 would be a safer bet.

Jeff

 

[js24]

And the current mileage is?

D'oh! It's around 75k

 

[js24]

I’m sure there are hundreds - if not thousands - of Gen1 Caymans and Boxsters running around with a degree of bore scoring without their owners being aware of it and without evidence of high oil consumption and smoking, so I think it’s impossible to give any hard and fast advice in your case.

I don’t know where you’re located but Hartech Automotive in Bolton really are the go-to specialists in this respect, so it would be worth speaking to them. There was an excellent online presentation from them to the Club a short while ago and I recall them saying that a high level of experience is required for anyone carrying out and assessing bore scoring issues, and only you can decide if your seller falls into that category. They did say that they often receive engines for repair with reported bore scoring issues which on inspection by themselves proved to be erroneous.

It sounds as though it’s a nice car which has been well prepared by a reputable seller so there’s no reason to believe that it will be a troublesome purchase, but there’s always going to be a level of uncertainty. If your budget will allow it, a 987.2 would be a safer bet.

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff.

I think you're probably right that there are almost certainly a load of others out there blissfully unaware that their car has bore scoring. I guess that's what I'm wondering - is it really all doom and gloom if it's only 10-15mm of scoring in cylinder 6? I'd be planning on keeping it for at least a couple of years, maybe longer.

The really big fear I have is being unable to sell the car unless I pay a huge amount for a Hartech engine rebuild. Or if it's simply inevitable that the car will need an engine rebuild...

 

[malarcy]

If buying from a specialist who tells you "it's fine mate" ask them for 24 months warranty on bore score getting bad enough for a rebuild. If they are that happy that the car is fine they will have stand behind it - if they won't put their money where their mouth is, then consider the options - ask for 2K off the price, put it in the bank and hope you don't need to spend it (and a chunk more ) - or, walk away.

 

[Neil Chadwick]

Personally , I would be thinking about it all the time and it would ruin my enjoyment of the car/how I drove it. As others have pointed out , if you get a good warranty then great, but I opted for a 2.9 987.2 as a an entry into Porsche to specifically avoid this issue + IMS concerns. There are lots of nice 987.2's out there which could be close to spec / budget.

Neil

 

[kitchens]

Doubt any dealer / specialist will give a 24 month warranty as they have no idea how you will look after it or drive the vehicle once it leaves their place ,and as for asking £2 k off not a chance .It seems the garage is straight and up front and if you don't buy some one else will and not ask the questions you have asked ,the fact is had the other items done indicates money has been spent on it over the years .If you are uncertain walk away ,plenty of cars out there but doubt many will have ever been bore scoped .I have had 3 987 engines and 3 986 Boxsters engines over many years and to date no engine issues . doubt even buying from a OPC that they will BS the engines before selling .

 

[malarcy]

Doubt any dealer / specialist will give a 24 month warranty as they have no idea how you will look after it or drive the vehicle once it leaves their place ,and as for asking £2 k off not a chance .It seems the garage is straight and up front and if you don't buy some one else will and not ask the questions you have asked ,the fact is had the other items done indicates money has been spent on it over the years .If you are uncertain walk away ,plenty of cars out there but doubt many will have ever been bore scoped .I have had 3 987 engines and 3 986 Boxsters engines over many years and to date no engine issues . doubt even buying from a OPC that they will BS the engines before selling .

I got a 3 year warranty from a specialist - at a cost - most of them use 3rd party warranty companies and its just a question of £. If the dealer thinks the car is fine, then they could pay for the warranty on it.

As far as getting money off, since I assume you aren't the seller then not sure how you can be so sure of "not a chance". I guess the OP could ask them ......

 

[js24]

Thanks all.

I did ask the warranty question, specific to bore scoring causing an engine rebuild but was told that was a no go... which I kind of expected and is fair enough.

The seller has been massively transparent with me, and the car is a great car aside from the bore score scare. Still on the fence, and I do think this kind of minor scoring impacts a whole ton of cars that are running perfectly healthy.

I guess it's made me call into question whether I should be going for a 987.1 Cayman S at all - and maybe I should be looking at a gen 1, 2.7 base Cayman instead... or a 987.2 base Cayman (but only a handful are within reach on my budget)...

Still mulling it over. Just feeling pretty gutted as it really was love at first sight with this car, and everything else is perfect...

 

[Neil Chadwick]

Also worth considering that when you come to sell the car , you are likely to be asked about all the same stuff unless its traded in. I know from years of racing motorbikes with nickasil cylinders, that a small amount of wear on the plating can be fine and never be a problem providing your pistons/rings are undamaged. However, it was always a problem for the new owner when I was selling the engine parts or bike when it came to negotiating the price.

 

[JohnCRS]

Give Hartech a call and speak to them or send them an email and enclose your photo. As Jeff suggests, at the presentation zoom they did offer to provide advice and told us stories about receiving engines for rebuild which actually did not need one.

John