991 Sceptic

[Oggy]

I admit it....since I first encountered the latest 911 at the dealer launch last year (and saw the price...and the sunroof []), I was definately one of those people who believed this latest iteration had gone all soft....lost it's mojo....lost the plot....not for "real" enthusiasts etc etc

That was until this week when my OPC lent me a C2S PDK for 24hrs while my car was in for service...

W O W !!!!!!!!!!

It's all been said before about the 991 so I'm not going to try and go over old ground.

The point of this post is simply to say....if like me....you had formed a negative opinion of the 991 without ever actually having had one to yourself for some time (I mean without having the salesman in the passenger seat), then you absolutely must get one on loan for a day !

The 911 is not confined to the history books, it's very much alive and with us with ever more usability and ever more fun ! The PSE, the surge in accelleration over 5,000 rpm, the PSE, the general up-market feel of the thing...did I mention the PSE []

To be honest, I couldn't stop driving it and ended up doing nigh-on 300 miles (felt very guilty actually)...although I did take care of it like it was my own and return it full to the brim with unleaded.

So, a sceptics summary of the 991 :-

- 2 cars in one....one part BMW 5 Series (in a very good way), another part GT3
- Very FAST once you get it into the sweet spot....I'm spoilt with the Turbo torque low down but once you learn to use the 991 gearbox....amazing !
- Steering...felt good to me ???
- Fun factor....with Sport+ and PSE engaged...roar-pop-bang-tastic !!!
- Practicality...cruises quietly & effortlessly when you want it to and with stop-start & coasting (or is it cruising []), I could easily see myself using it every day. Kids loved it in the back, especially when I took them to school in it []
- PDK...just gob-smackingly impressive....but I'm a real die-hard manual freak and actually this (and also the annoying electric handbrake) are my only critiscisms.

And herein still lies the problem for me, 991 is engineered around PDK and I guess a manual 991 would mean you lose some of it's practicality (ease of crusing, driving around town) and also some of it's sporty character (launch control !!) ?? But having been over my favorite country roads with it several times, I still just felt a little bit detached....out of control even. One of the main things was not knowing instinctively which gear I'm in and not being able to blip the throttle myself on the downshifts (although PDK does a bloody good job of doing that itself !!). I guess like anything you get used to it but is really the only thing (besides not having £90,000 spare) stopping me from going out and buying one tomorrow []

Anyway, consider this sceptic well and truly converted. 991 is fantastic but then, you all knew that anyway []

 

[Lancerlot]

Nice write up. Well done.
It's a stunning piece of kit as Peter and others will confirm. []
PDK takes a little getting used to, but perseverance is the key. Once mastered, I doubt you would want to go back to manual. It's an amazing transmission. [8D]
Did your demo car have PDCC, do you know?
Price-wise - it's a lot of wedge, but we've been spoilt in the past with a relatively cheap supercar. Even at current prices, it's not bad value when considering its nearest competition. [8|]

Order one - you know you want to! []

Regards,

Clive.

 

[Oggy]

Cheers Clive ! Really was a revelation for me, expected not to like it.

Defo no PDDC, handling was fab though. Is PDDC recommended ??

If I had the cash, would buy one now. As it is, will have to wait a while (as I did to get my current car).

 

[Lancerlot]

ORIGINAL: Oggy

Is PDDC recommended ??

Divergence of opinion on this, personally I would have it. I think there's a bit of confusion about what it actually does. But basically it eliminates the element of compromise from roll bar settings. It maintains a decent ride on straights and stiffer set-up on hard cornering. So what's not to like?

You may have missed my 991 appraisal at the beginning of the year so here's the link if you're interested in having a look. Click

Regards,

Clive.

 

[flat6]

Interesting read. Thanks for taking the time.

Coming from a turbo, when you say you'd buy a 991, do you mean the C2S you've just trialled, or would you be waiting for a 991 turbo?

 

[Oggy]

I'd have a C2S...prob even PDK !

991 Turbo would be just epic but way out of my price range in foreseeable future.

Right now, my 911 is 3rd car and consequently, gets very little use (its only done 28k miles in 6 yrs).

I have a BMW for everyday use which (as I mainly work from home), hardly gets used either !

So plan would be to have 1 car to do both jobs then I'm forced to use and enjoy the Porsche and won't be so precious with it like I am with my garage queen Turbo. 991 appeals to me as I think it could fulfil both roles better than Turbo could.

Would also save on double depreciation and running costs.

Would be a real wrench to sell the Turbo but given my test experience (and above) am currently considering it !

 

[flat6]

I guess that shows how much they've moved the game on from 997.1 to 997.2 to 991.

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: flat6

I guess that shows how much they've moved the game on from 997.1 to 997.2 to 991.

If anyone watched the Sky programme Mega Factories the other week it was all about Porsche's brand new state of art paint shop and the design development and production of the 991

The designers brief was probably the hardest to date to create a 90% all new 911 from the ground up but still retain the core products historic DNA

The final result was a 911 that was more radical than the previous 6 generation added together so as flat6 says the game has well and truly moved on and the 991 represents something totally fresh for past and first time buyers

Even the carried over engine had over 150 all new parts to it and the PDK's was reworked for faster smoother changes than ever before

Hopefully this mega factories programme will shortly join the last series which are all on youtube.com

 

[flat6]

I like manual transmission, and whenever i've had a PDK loaner, when I get back in the manual the manual feels more involving and controllable. However, when not pushing on, the manual can feel a bit of a chore after being in PDK. I'm looking forward to a 981 or 991 test drive to see how the PDK performs.

Porsche has a tough challenge with the 911. If the change in looks from one generation to the next is too great (e.g. 993 to 996), the backlash is even more than when the new car looks much like it's predecessor. I think they got it right in that regard with the 991. Unmistakably a 911 but with a new rear.

 

[pwebb]

Hi Doug

Great write up, and totally understand your reservations with regard to the transmission. But, like Clive, if you lived with one you'd find how you want to use it. Some knock the stick across into manual mode immediately they get in the car and like the controllability. Personally I let the gearbox sort itself out most of the time, but have fun overriding it as the mood takes. The one area that I found amazing is on track. As a rank amateur, with the pdk in auto and sports plus engaged, the car is alive and second guesses changes faster than I can, for sure.

As far as the 991 as a daily driver, here's my two penn'orth. I commuted from various parts of leafy Surrey into London for a good twenty years in a series of C2s. A 964, 993, 996 and a 997. Never had a problem with reliability and stacked up quite high mileages in all of them. The 997.2 and 991 have not been driven in the same way, and I miss that (I stopped commuting, of course[]). Each end of the working day was a bit special and so much more enjoyable than the train/tube alternative. Seems a no brainer to me, but then I'm biased. Or you could just sell the Beemer and thrash around in the Turbo a bit more, not exactly a hardship[]

 

[Oggy]

Hi Peter,

Was truly surprised, 991 with PSE has a real depth of character I just wasn't expecting. It impressed me with its tech & premium feel, but also with its raw soundtrack and basic driver appeal. Honestly, I have gone from complete dismissal to complete awe within 24hrs !

Problem is, I now really want one !!

Seriously guys, if you also looked at the over-badging, dodgy sunroof and heavily specced price tag and thought "No!"...just drive one for a day...

Really love Porsche...sad, but true

 

[Alex L]

Opposite of my experiences.

I had one for 3 days, in its most sporty guise, and I found it rather dull compared to my Turbo. Better than the 997 Carrera for sure, but I'd rather take a 997 GT3 or 997 Turbo out for a spin any day of the week...

So these things have to be experienced for oneself before any opinions can be made.

 

[Trout]

My review of the 991S would be almost exactly the same - except I did buy one and came into it from a 7.2 GT3RS. It is not as raw or involving for sure, but fulfils a much wider set of needs and when on it is very much GT3 able. Amazing car.

 

[pwebb]

Welcome to this little corner of the 911 world. Have you tracked your 991 yet? And what colour and spec did you go for?

 

[Oggy]

Did the 991 C4S experience on Friday at PEC. Sure many have already done it but for those who haven't, you get to spend time in a 4S PDK and then a C2S manual (for comparison).

My management summary :-

o It was very wet !

o 4S is easier to get up the ice hill and harder to slide on the low friction (no sh*t Sherlock ;-)

o For the first time in history, the rear reflective strip on the 4S is illuminated and also fades to one side or the other when parking lights are used (don't ask me why !!)

o Manual gearbox felt really notchy and I didn't get on with it that well. Having now driven PDK with rockers, paddles and the manual... PDK with paddles would definitely be my choice on a 991. I am a die hard manual supporter but was plain to me that 991 is engineered around PDK and hence just seems to suit it better.

o Again, really impressed by PEC...especially it's restaurant !

Cheers,
Doug.

 

[pwebb]

Still to organise myself and try the C4 at PEC Doug, but sounds like you weren't particularly struck by the 4 in comparison with the 2. Are you tempted by the 991 yet or waiting for the TT?

Edit to say should have reread your earlier post - so 2 or 4 tempting you yet??[]

 

[Oggy]

Hi Peter,

Apologies, was trying to keep it brief (but obviously was too brief). I thought the 4S was utterly fantastic [8D]

The 2S was the first manual 991 I have driven and to be honest....preferred the PDK as manual was not so nice to use on that car. Wonder if it was just a bad example or if they are all are so notchy ??

Or...perhaps this was a deliberate ploy to get more ticks in the PDK box []

Still deciding what to do at present....will probably stick for a while and then go for a Gen 2 GT3 in a year or so as it suits me having one fun car for dry days & high days and then also an unassuming diesel burner for everyday use.

Fantastic machines though !!

ps. Yes, would love a 991 TT but will need to win the lottery first []