993 Engine transplant in 911 3.2 Carrera?

[Greg Park]

I know there'll be members who frown on this as it's not original, but I was wondering about buying a 3.2 will high miles (180,000+) and then transplanting a 993 3.6 varioram engine into it.

Has anyone done this?

Has anyone researched doing it?

Can anyone point m i the direction of a specialist which offers the service?

Seems like a logical choice of engine as I like the 3.2 style and narrow body, but think the newer more powerful engine could make the car very interesting.

 

[bones]

An exciting project Greg , research on Pelican's website before getting too far into it . It's more involved than for instance putting in a 964 engine. Why not buy a good 3.2 and when you rebuild the engine tune it for more performance.

 

[oliver]

The thing to consider, with high mileage and age, is that wear and tear is not confined to the engine. Putting more power in a tired car may lead to a slippery slope of expense and heartache.

I know that you have been looking for a nice 3.2 Carrera for quite a while. My advice would be to persevere and try to find the best, original, low mileage G50 Coupe, and perhaps widen your choice of colours.

These are the cars that I think will be seriously desirable future classics.

 

[bones]

Makes it even more exciting, upgrade the brakes and suspension too! []

 

[Guest]

Look at Colin Belton's 9M (Ninemeister) website for details.

I was riding in a 77 911 backdated to 2.7RS look with a 3.6 Varioram engine and short gears 2 days ago and it was stunning. It could pull a GT3 in a straight line (up to 140mph which is the limit of the gearing). This was built by 9M. I also followed an SC with (I think) a 3.6 in it with standard suspension, brakes and tyres. It was driven by a very good racer and was drifting everywhere - lots of fun if you know what you are doing.

I think its a great idea if you can get the insurance sorted.

 

[IanHighfield]

Look here for examples in the USA - previous post here.

here

 

[Richard Pottle]

Well folks I actually did this transplant 3 years ago in my 1983 SC (well JM Autos did it - took a long time but they seem to have done a decent job).

The engine was a 993 VRam engine from a 1996 car. In summary it is awesome - the extra torque makes a hell of a difference.

When I was considering it everyone said that the gearbox wouldn't be able to cope (I have a 915 'box). To date I have probably done about 15k spirited miles since the transplant and there have been no issues at all - to be honest it feels a lot tighter than my brother's 3.2 and I have no problems getting any of the gears.

The only real transplant 'problem' I had was that the front standard SC oil cooler wasn't up to the job and the engine was getting quite hot especially when sitting in traffic (ie up to about 10 o'clock on the temp gauge). I had a race oil cooler fitted by Neil Bainbridge at BS Motorsport that has 2 fans and now the temp never goes beyond horizontal on the gauge. In traffic the fans cut in and the temp is lower then when driving at speed so problem solved.

I had to have a Patrick Motorports '915 to 993 engine' lightweight flywheel fitted to mate the engine to the gearbox. With this fitted the engine revs so freely now.

The standard 993 airbox wouldn't fit as it makes the engine too wide to fit into the engine bay so we had to go for a cone filter.

The engine bay heater fan wouldn't fit also so that had to be removed - this is no problem though as we have ducted from the cooling fan into the heat exchangers - when driving the cooling fan produces so much air that the fan would be redundant anyway. The only problem is if you are sitting in traffic where at idle the revs are too low for the engine cooling fan to produce enough air to force the heat through to the cabin.

The backbox had to be custom made (by Hayward and Scot) to mate to the heat exchangers and to fit in the usual place - mine has 2 exits and makes an awesome noise.

I have braided fuel and oil lines.

The engine is actually too deep in dimension to fit into the engine bay - the way around this was fit an RS pulley which is narrower.

With respect to insurance I am 30, live in Canary Wharf (ie East London postcode) and have off street parking. My policy is with Diamond Insurance of Tring and is limited to 5,000 miles per annum and costs £800.

I recently got a quote from Asset Trust if I added a supercharger and the premium would be £900.

In summary go for it!!!! []

 

[bones]

Nice to hear that you are a satisfied customer of J&M autos, you are one of few from what I've heard. Anyway the muppets have long since gone and I believe the whole block is due for redevelopment. I'd like to see the work do you ever get along to the Ace that must be a pretty quick car have you modified the brakes and suspension?

 

[Richard Pottle]

I can't find the time to get to Ace unfortunately but I regularly hoon it up and down the A41 to Waddesdon at weekends and I see that you are in North London so maybe we could meet somewhere around there?

My brakes and suspension came off a 930 - they are very good. I drove a 996 TT for a weekend and thought that my brakes were better than those!!

I've heard the stories about JM Autos too - I must have been one of the lucky ones!

 

[Guest]

Hi Richard

I'd like to see your car too. I've had my 3.2 rebuilt recently, but I'm still interested.

I'm in Stepney / Mile End, around 3 miles from you.

 

[Richard Pottle]

Hi Zia

My car was featured in 911 and PW in the 100th issue - I think it was July 2003. The article details all the costs etc etc and there are some good pictures too.

I can let you know when I'll next be taking the car out if you like and we can meet. I'm actually working today and part of tomorrow so this weekend might be tricky but if you're online regularly then I'm sure that we'll be able to arrange something!

Cheers

Richard

 

[Guest]

Yeah, no probs. I don't find time to go to any meets either.

I've just read July 03 911&PW and it seems that the build costs were severly underestimated on the panel detailing the money side.

Mine was in June 04 issue. It's just too pretty / tarty and so I need to do something to beef up the power - a widebody weighs more and a cabrio even more.

PS don't say 'just buy a 993' because then I'd be wasting all the resto work and improvements made thus far. I don't think these things will ever be worth more than 15k, so sod it - I'm gonna drive mine every chance I get.

See you soon!

 

[Richard Pottle]

With the amount of money I've spent on mine people were saying why didn't you just buy a 911 Turbo or an early 993? There are several reasons I didn't do that, some of them being

I don't like turbo cars - the lag is annoying
I've driven a 4 speed turbo and it just didn't feel quick below 4000 rpm
993 would be slower than mine

Plus, I could supercharge mine and get 350 BHP in a lightweight car which would be seriously quick. I'm not even sure that the gearbox would struggle as supercharged cars have steady increases in power along the rev range as opposed to massive dollops kicking in when a turbo spools up for example. I don't tend to hammer mine in 1st and 2nd also which are the ratios that would probably take most of the damage.

And after supercharging I could intercool it, smaller pulley,...[]

 

[Guest]

Fine. I'll do you a challenge (as I was burnt off by a Supra Turbo the other day):

We'll go to the same supplier / fitter.

We'll supercharge & intercool both cars, but I'll keep my 3.2 engine cos it hasn't yet had 1,000 miles since the rebuild.

I did some reading and phoning around.
Steve Holgate no longer exists.
9M say do a MoTeC + 993 instead.
John Bellringer emailed me with info, but no supplier as his was already done.

So who will do it?

PS apologies for going off subject thread

 

[Richard Pottle]

My brother has a 3.2 and has been looking to supercharge/turbocharge his for a while. I don't know of anyone that supercharges a 3.2 - I know Tech9 used to do it but no longer offer the service. I think the only way you could add forced induction to a 3.2 at present is to go the Protomotive Turbo route which is relatively cheap (especially with the GBPollar being so good at the moment).

Regarding suercharging the only people that would supercharge mine would be 9M.

Could do with about £10k first though...

 

[Guest]

SOK - Superchargers of Knoxville.

Can be difficult to contact apparently, but they definitely offer a supercharger for 3.2s, in a couple of different horsepower flavours I think.