993 prices

[vinceg]

Have been watching for 6 months +, reading, watching and now well past the 996 v 993 religious alignment thing (decision 993 for the first). Now looking to make the commitment. Going to make it a little difficult by setting my focus on an "˜S' "" easy on 2 or 4 option.

I thought I had a good feel for price but now I'm active in the market seems the first few cars I have shown interest in have been somewhat above expectations re price.

Would be interested in any opinions on any offer. I would guess market is somewhat slow this time of year due winter period. All those garage queens waiting spring eh"¦

Had 3 cars in scope in past 2 weeks: 2 from a major Sussex based dealer and 1 private.

Without naming names: What would be groups fair bid be on a 993 60-70k, 97, C2S , good condition, good colour, fsh, manual: I estimated £33-34k from solid dealer and 31-32k private. But, I am seeing ( be asked) prices of +2k to +2.5k on this with little inclination to negotiate. Am I of a few k off re expectations or looking in wrong place. I know condition is all but assumed fair/good in above. Happy to pay the price but I do not want to over pay through over enthusiasm. Any views welcome.

Also assuming a C4S would be +1k to +1.5k more "" same spec. True?

 

[oceancarrera]

Dealers will be able to sit on a 993 for the next 6 months with no drop in value. So they'll wait for the first "I gotta have the last air-cooled/it's my first 911"-buyer who will pay their premium.

For a private sale, I wouldn't pay more than £30k for a 60-70k C2S unless it's had a new clutch, new suspension, and is in the midnight/ocean blue. If it's a W-chassis, then it could potentially command a £1k premium if the buyer genuinely wants the "last of the air-cooled". If it has the black leather sports seats instead of the common marble grey leather, I'd be willing to pay an extra £1k on top.

 

[Charlie_McLaughlin]

Vince,

I have a Artic Silver 993 2S, August 1997, with 42,500 miles, I may be tempted to sell for the right price. Genuine car with sports seats, "S" front spoiler, recent suspension replacement (£1500) manual. Price arround £35000.

07966 126464

Cheers

Charlie

 

[Gordon Attar]

Vince
Your pretty spot on with the prices (and so is Charlie) keep looking you will find one easily at those prices

 

[Alan Woods]

35-7k? Is this for a 2S Maurice?

 

[vinceg]

In my 6 month learning/watching phase I produced myslef a basic excel model to estimate prices based on usual key car attributes. Have accumulated a couple hundred advertised/sold cars as input data druing this time so that is what I was using to est fair value. For your car model would estimate £37.4 private sale.

 

[zwhitea]

Just out of interest, any ideas on how much a '96 C4 Cabriolet could fetch? 75k miles, porsche custom metallic blue (apparently not midnight blue, but very similar!), midnight blue full leather interior, sports seats, climate control etc. Factory fitted 18" Technology wheels....

Also I wondered what people think about the potential hit 993 prices may get when the Cayman hits the used market. Do you think it will have any real effect on prices at all, or will the 993 still hold the premium it does now?

Cheers
Ruth (zwhitea's other half with the better car! [])

 

[Guest]

Back in 2001 I knew a guy who paid £35K for a 20K miles targa from OPC. 3 years later I paid a bit less for a v/r cab from OPC with ~40K. Figure they'll always be worth £15-20K so a better bet than most stuff over the long term! Just check OPC site for c2S's - £40K+ & fly off the forecourts if you ever see one! But accept they'll drop £££'s in real terms, so you have to buy from the heart!

 

[mikejb993]

I still can't believe how the price gap between the C2 and C2S keeps on widening. I reckon its up to around 10k difference now, which is absurd. Without being too contraversial or provocative, as its not necassarily my opinion, but, the general consensus seems to be to that the C2S is the 'prettiest' one, and the C2 is the 'drivers' choice. Rarity and looks have helped the long term values of the C2S, but its not a better car. I seem to remember that the C2S is the car that a popular Porsche mag once described as 'best avoided', until put under pressure to re-evaluate, and then moving it up not 1 or 2 notches, but about 6. A suprising U turn. They are both great cars, but its maybe difficult to move 'up' to a C2S from a C2, as something doesn't feel quite right. I've tried 2 of them, and I'll keep my C2 thanks.

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: mikejb993

I still can't believe how the price gap between the C2 and C2S keeps on widening. I reckon its up to around 10k difference now, which is absurd. Without being too contraversial or provocative, as its not necassarily my opinion, but, the general consensus seems to be to that the C2S is the 'prettiest' one, and the C2 is the 'drivers' choice. Rarity and looks have helped the long term values of the C2S, but its not a better car. I seem to remember that the C2S is the car that a popular Porsche mag once described as 'best avoided', until put under pressure to re-evaluate, and then moving it up not 1 or 2 notches, but about 6. A suprising U turn. They are both great cars, but its maybe difficult to move 'up' to a C2S from a C2, as something doesn't feel quite right. I've tried 2 of them, and I'll keep my C2 thanks.

I don't think the price is that wide - maybe 4k but certainly not 10k. There have been a number of C2S for sale recently at lowish 30's and have not been selling. It may be that the C4s will hold a bit of a premium longer as it has all the turbo running gear etc?

Whatever, 993 prices have had a great run and been very stable for quite some time.

Will it continue?

No.

Except for mint TTs and good RS's and obviously just about any GT2s!

Of course this is just my opinion, but if you follow the prices you can already see they are on a new course....

J

 

[pse_SC]

The C2S's you say haven't been selling at £32k are probably because all these people with enough spare £ to buy an S are looking for the supposed top notch examples, which they seem to EXPECT to pay higher money for(!) In other words they think the "cheaper" S's have something wrong with 'em.

As a case in point, there's been a great looking C2S (albeit a tiptronic) with a reputable dealer (mentioning no names) for quite a few weeks at £25k. I would suggest that if anyone is really passionate about the S rump etc, and haven't got money to throw away, then this would be a very good buy!

That's where the (almost) £10k difference comes in.

As somebody must have said before, condition is all. Trouble is, alot of people think you have to pay shed loads out to necessarily achieve this.

Anyway, just my opinion...

 

[jacksonrj4098]

I find it quite amusing when the C2S is slated for being such a harsh ride and that the C2 is by far a superior driver's car. Yet"¦"¦ how many posts do you see from C2 drivers looking to lower the ride height and stiffen the suspension thus giving a harsher ride J

 

[38F3E1]

ORIGINAL: jacksonrj4098

I find it quite amusing when the C2S is slated for being such a harsh ride and that the C2 is by far a superior driver's car. Yet"¦"¦ how many posts do you see from C2 drivers looking to lower the ride height and stiffen the suspension thus giving a harsher ride J

That is not correct IMHO. The C2S cars come with M033 suspension I believe which is the standard suspension but lowered. Therefore there will be no difference in firmness between a C2 and a C2S.

The C4S comes with M030 sports suspension and therefore does have firmer suspension by default.

The C2S was a way for the factory to use up the remaining wide bodies from the Turbo and is in effect the standard floorpan, suspension, brakes etc fitted with a wide body plus lots of bling options as standard (and I don't use the term bling negatively as the C2S has some nice stuff as standard). The same 'wide body at the end of run' policy has been used on all variants of the 911 up to the end of the 996 and has previously been called things like 'Super Sport' etc.

Ian.

 

[38F3E1]

ORIGINAL: MoC2S

Sorry, Ian, the Carrera S and 4S both came with M033 standard. Different springs are used, and the ride is definitely harder than standard. To my mind the M030 has a better ride due to the progressive springs used ...

Bling is the wrong word, I think. The detail of the instruments, handbrake, gear lever and engine grille are all quite tasteful vs the carbon / aluminium etc options available, let alone can-can ruffled full leather !

Thought you might take bling the wrong way. It wasn't meant that way just a way of describing all the options you tend to get on them (sports seats, leather, colour coded rear grill, wheels, etc).

Back to M033. I might have to disagree as my car originally came fitted with M033 and felt the same as driving a car with standard suspension when I drove cars back to back (perhaps very very lightly firmer due the the shortened springs). I thought the M033 springs were the same rating as standard but just shorter to give the lowered ride. When I changed my car from M033 to M030 I could definately feel the difference so to compare C2S with M033 to a car upgraded to M030 (by Richard) is not valid IMHO.

On desirabilty it's my guess the number of C2, C4, C2S, C4S and Targas produced with Varioram engines (96 on) is pretty similar. For example it's very very difficult to find Varioram C2 manual cars because Porsche was pushing all the above models during that period and didn't seem to sell many. Unfortunately I can't confirm my theory because there are no numbers available.

Ian.

PS Are you sure the C4S only came with M033 because I have been told different.

 

[38F3E1]

Weird they put the Turbo brakes on the 4S but not the 2S and gave them both the same M033 suspension. I always thought the 4S had the Turbo suspension as well. Thanks for clarifying.

I would be very interested in the numbers when you can post them.

Ian.

 

[jason]

That was what I thought to - the differnce between the 2s and 4s was that the 4s had all the turbo running gear and brakes - basically the turbo without the turbo....

You learn something new every day....

 

[mbrands]

That's very interesting, especially the two 1999 cars.

What is a 993 Carrera Coupe / Cabrio though ?

 

[TRW40]

Maurice

The charts are very interesting but I could not access those for 1997 and 1998. Is it just me or is anbody else having diffivculty with these tables?
Tim

 

[Guest]

Me too.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: mbrands

That's very interesting, especially the two 1999 cars.

What is a 993 Carrera Coupe / Cabrio though ?

Special Edition: 993 SCHIZOID MAN(ual)

Regards

Bob