993 Valuations

mike cooper · Aug 24, 2006

Maurice,Sundeep etc.

We all had a fairly meaningfull discussion a few months ago on valuations that invited quite a few comments and differing opinions. Talking to a specialist last week who has an extremely good reputation for the quality of service work etc. He recently had a couple of 993's in for routine service. Both cars had been purchased between the £24K to £26K a few months prior and were described by the selling dealers as needing no remedial work. Examination of both cars revealed work amounting to between £4K and £5K for each car to get them to what most of us would regard as 'proper' condition.

Two points here. Firstly you cannot ignore an independent thorough examination on a car irrespective of who is selling it (as we are always being advised)
A secondly for those of us who own and maintain our cars to a high level, the value whilst only being as high as someone is prepared to pay cannot be in the low to mid £20K's when cars are being purchased for that and then having to have £5K+ spending on them.

Mike Cooper

968er · Aug 24, 2006

Mike,

I made a very similar point a few months ago about the number of people who were buying 993's in the mid £20k, to then be posting very shortly after that they needed to spend thousands of pounds to bring the car up to spec. This was even after having PPI's carried out.

It is a fact that people want to get a bargain, but are not happy to find that the so called bargain is going to cost a lot of money and that is always the problem when you are buying something like a 993. Too may dogs out there that have been owned for about 12 - 18 months and have nothing done to them, or worse still, corners cut to save money and are now on the market as the current owner either cannot afford to look after it or is not prepared to pay the money to keep it in good fettle.

This may sound snobbish, but there has been a definite change in the type of people who own 911's.

jacksonrj4098 · Aug 24, 2006

>This may sound snobbish, but there has been a definite change in the type of people who own 911's.

Can't be a bad thing [

] and i'm sure clarkson would agree

mike cooper · Aug 24, 2006

William

As the specialist said to me,'Good ones are getting harder and harder to find, and fewer in number'.

I think the answer is if you have a good car and you are looking to change it don't let some of the dealers talk the price down or take the first offer. I am still of the opinion that a good 993 irrespective of age in the right condition with nothing requiring doing to it is always going to be nearer to £30K. Forget that you can buy a 996 for less. A 996 isn't a 993. A well maintained 993 is as good as money in the bank but a lot more fun.

Mike

Sundeep · Aug 24, 2006

Mike

William's point is a good one, his car is exactly what 'we' would buy and is a correct reflection of the condition as it is 'good to go' if I knew someone who wanted a red 993 then I'll send them his way...a good car is the key with our ageing supercars

and ironically I've been bid 22k to sell mine this weekend, remember that's a LHD 96 Targa with 112k on the clock ! but the potential buyer can't see a single penny that is actually needed on the car over the next year except for the fact the passenger seat tilt needs some lubricating ! in fairness I would held out for 23k but he's a friend of a mate so it's a bargain and that it is also getting a new roof as we speak !

and right now I'm very tempted by a certain Manthey'ed GT3, just need to work out a few things including if the damn thing actually gets into my driveway !! [:-]

anyway back to the point if you take all of us out of the equation, we own one so we ain't the buyer, the other 90% of the population who want a 993 see it in terms of price and mileage PERIOD, I know I would only ever buy a car from a fellow member or forum user as these are known cars becomes a valuable piece of the car's future credibility. . . . . . . .

but getting past mileage and age is very difficult, actually it's near impossible for normal folk, actually it took me almost a year to believe the buy on condition hype ! those buyers from 'outside' can't see how specialist such a car is, after all back in 1996 you could buy a Ford Fieata Ghia with more gadgets and tech than a fully loaded 993 of it's day !! so then you'll always find an early 993 c2 negleted but on new Federal Tyres and some Max Power Suspension, Zinger 19" Alloys, not forgetting dry use only etc etc, which would look just like new after a coat of turtle wax......

and in the end it come down to what someone is willing to pay and unless you can tempt them with a pathway of shinny tiles, a DD recepionist and free coffee otherwsie they will be quoting every chapter of the Used Car Buyers issue of how to buy a Porsche for under £5

I've been looking for a play car .... 2wd, 6 cylinders, german and no playstation tricks and have seen complete dogs out there mostly from the trade, never got to see a private one as I could smell them out over the phone, which leads me to believe that I won't find a better one than mine or in fact any one that my fellow 993 owners have here and across in those other internet heavans but as I've already got a well sorted 993 admittedly in LHD and Targa spec (the latter provides a weight problem which limits my track speed and adds some frustration) I see no value in paying another 10k for a good 993 C2 when I already have one for much less.......... although I am debating whether to chop out the glass panel and put in a sliding carbon roof and a host of other weight lose measures (saving up to 60+ kilos!) as the handling balance on the 993 Targa is now very well sorted.....but that's a whole different proposition !

Ultimately we have all made the fatal mistake of getting emotionally attached to our works of art, and they are masters of their era, perfection in our eyes which quite frankly conclude that I would find it a lot easier brokering the sale my delightful 4 year niece Sofia [

]......

regards

kennyboy · Aug 25, 2006

Nice one Sundeep, read it twice I laughed so much! [

]

a DD recepionist and free coffee otherwsie they will be quoting every chapter of the Used Car Buyers issue of how to buy a Porsche for under £5

ha ha brilliant.

oh yeah and you've articulated well very how surely most of us are feeling..

Hey can't you hold on a bit longer before going all GT3 on us though - how about some 9m heads and Max Power suspension instead?

mike cooper · Aug 25, 2006

Sundeep

Good article, good reading. It's what the forum is all about. Like the sound of the GT3. Don't let the driveway scenario deter you. If needs be consider moving house. Got to get the priorities right. My other half often suggests I move into the garage. (if we had a live in maid in the space above I'd probably take her up on the idea!)

Mike

mikejb993 · Aug 25, 2006

I have just accepted an offer on my 993, but quite wisely, the sale is dependant upon an independant inspection which will be carried out mid next week, arranged by the purchaser at my home. So I am currently living this experience.

My thoughts and worries are that even though my car has been looked after by JZ for the last 3 years of my ownership, and everything found by them has been given the green light to fix, no expense spared, it's apparent to me that the person/engineer/mechanic who carries out the PPI with their 70 point check or whatever, will want to cover their back in case of any future problems with the car, and may diagnose more repairs being required than is really nessacary. For example, if the clutch goes in 9 months time, the purchaser would perhaps feel recourse is due from the party that performed the PPI, so may cover himself by suggesting the the clutch is 'about to go', whereas in fact it may last years.

The purchaser and I have agreed that as long as not more than £2k worth of immediate work is required, the sale will proceed at the agreed figure, and even though I have had everything done when highlighted, I can't help thinking that it is a 10 year old car, and what will they find? But more importantly, what will they find that actually doesn't need doing? I was feeling comfortable with the £2k because I do feel that everything is OK (last service and check May'06), but can't help worrying what if....

Has anyone else had this experience?

Sundeep · Aug 25, 2006

ORIGINAL: mikejb993

The purchaser and I have agreed that as long as not more than £2k worth of immediate work is required, the sale will proceed at the agreed figure, and even though I have had everything done when highlighted, I can't help thinking that it is a 10 year old car, and what will they find? But more importantly, what will they find that actually doesn't need doing? I was feeling comfortable with the £2k because I do feel that everything is OK (last service and check May'06), but can't help worrying what if....

Has anyone else had this experience?

The issue with mechanics is that they can have a very subjective opinion of the wear life of any component .... anything made of rubber is open to debate.... and then can lead into a whole area of further questions.......

but then again a simple £30 (?) MOT covers a lot (admittedly in a limited fashion) of aspects of any 'inspection' and then you're down to brakes, suspension parts and anything that moves or has a function and is in visual sight....

any potential quotes should NOT be based on the OPC retail price for parts but at the same time and I hate to say it but as a car dealer does, prepartion is half the game...

£2k is a lot of money ! so what ever an inspection throws up it is still open to negotiation....... after all I was told by Tognola Engineering when they did my PPI that the gears on my rear spolier needed replacing as the gears were noisy for circa £400... a bit of lube and 2 years later, not a squeak and they are running fine according to every other garage the car has been seen at !

Sundeep · Aug 25, 2006

ORIGINAL: kennyboy

Hey can't you hold on a bit longer before going all GT3 on us though - how about some 9m heads and Max Power suspension instead?

thanks mike and kenny ! I'm just happy I can almost spell....

the gt3 is very 50.50 right now but it's fully manthey'ed as a normal one doesn't really appeal....... I feel like I've just had a one night stand and want it to do it again but know one day I will have to wake up.....

but cruically for me going quicker is not about buying or having a faster car, so for now I see the appeal but I'll save the 9m Billets and sticky tyres for later! but I need to stay away from John at TD's or he will tempt me in !!

I'm just at the point that if any mechanical component even hints at being beyond half it's life, I'll change it !
and then there's the continuing list...... 1st 2 years has had a long list of upgrades and improvments....

to keep means... Fabspeed Sports Exhausts, 18's Alloys and Tyres, LWF (but not convinced) , RS Gear Change, Leather refurb and both the side skirts and bonnet would need a respray next year, also after 4000 miles on my current Bilstein HD/M030 set up I would like to take it all out and put in some adjustable H&R's !! and maybe an RS rear spolier, well actually some rear downforce would help period ! and some more driver training !!