996 age con trick!

[hg..]

Just bought a 996 c4s from a dealer advertising it as a 2005 05 reg. car. He assured me it had 2 months or so warranty, checked the V5 doc. and had an AA and HPI check which both state the car was manufactured in 2005 so parted with nearly £50k. Turns out the thing was manufactured in 2003! Have got my solicitors on the case and will ultimately sue for damages.

Has anyone got any advice or come across this sort of thing before? Any help would be much appreciated as this is my first Porsche and not a good experience, although driving it was fantastic!

 

[THX911]

ORIGINAL: hg..

Just bought a 996 c4s from a dealer advertising it as a 2005 05 reg. car. He assured me it had 2 months or so warranty, checked the V5 doc. and had an AA and HPI check which both state the car was manufactured in 2005 so parted with nearly £50k. Turns out the thing was manufactured in 2003! Have got my solicitors on the case and will ultimately sue for damages.

Has anyone got any advice or come across this sort of thing before? Any help would be much appreciated as this is my first Porsche and not a good experience, although driving it was fantastic!

How did you discover it was a 2003? What does the VIN number say? Why do you have to get your solictiors involved already, is the dealer denying your findings? I'm sure if you talk to them first then you may come to an agreement or be able to return the car and get refund plus compensation or a newer model at the same price.

 

[Rotorhead]

Was it an 'unofficial import' or an official OPC/PCGB car?

 

[hg..]

The VIN says it's a 2003, as does the letter of origin from Porsche so there's no doubt it was manufactured in 2003. I emailed the dealer when I found out the true age of the car ( I took it to Porsche Reading to have a couple of minor things done under the warranty, they did the work and then they discovered the true age of the car and had to charge me for the work, which they did at a cheap rate infairness to them). The dealer did offer a full refund initially but have renaged on their offer and now will only pay £5k less. It's a complicated issue but they were aware of the age and were mis representiung the car in their advert and are now lying about what was said regarding outstanding warranty.

 

[hg..]

Oliver, it was sent to Cyprus early 2003, PDI'd and delivered to it's first customer in April 03. Apparently the life of the car starts then as far as Porsche are concerned and the warranty. You are also meant to have it serviced every year thereafter which it hasn't had as there was no service in 2004 or early 2005 so it doesn't have a full service history either which the dealer stated it did.

 

[Guest]

What is the numberplate? No, I'm not asking you to post it on here... but didn't that give you a clue as to the age of the vehicle?

as far as I'm aware you cannot put a plate on a car to make it look newer.

 

[hg..]

The number plate is NA05 blah blah blah, so that would indicate a 2005 car to me. The AA and HPI checks both say it was manufactured in 2005, the V5 doc. says declared new at first reg. in 2005 etc. etc. so as a novice 'ordinary member of the public' car buyer I took it that the car was a 2005. The dealer even stated that it had 2 months left on the mauufacturers warranty which I had no reason to dis-beleive. I shall sue for damages and keep the car but would be inerested in anyones opinion/experience of this kind of thing.

 

[THX911]

ORIGINAL: hg..

Oliver, it was sent to Cyprus early 2003, PDI'd and delivered to it's first customer in April 03. Apparently the life of the car starts then as far as Porsche are concerned and the warranty. You are also meant to have it serviced every year thereafter which it hasn't had as there was no service in 2004 or early 2005 so it doesn't have a full service history either which the dealer stated it did.

The Cyprus thing rings a bell...

There was a post between John Bond and Mark Bennett some time ago; didn't quite get what they were talking about:
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/m.asp?m=197757

Check with John as from the above thread it seems a UK Porsche can begin life in Cyprus(?)

 

[hg..]

Thanks THX, the issue I have with my car being a C98 is value. It's a great car and I have no issues with it other than it is actually 2 years older than the dealer said, had no warranty left as a result and is an import. Porsche Reading quoted £17k less than I paid for it as a trade in so this is what we will sue the garage for in damages, plus of course my rather expensive lawyers fees!

 

[Mark_Bennett]

ORIGINAL: THX911

ORIGINAL: hg..

Oliver, it was sent to Cyprus early 2003, PDI'd and delivered to it's first customer in April 03. Apparently the life of the car starts then as far as Porsche are concerned and the warranty. You are also meant to have it serviced every year thereafter which it hasn't had as there was no service in 2004 or early 2005 so it doesn't have a full service history either which the dealer stated it did.

The Cyprus thing rings a bell...

There was a post between John Bond and Mark Bennett some time ago; didn't quite get what they were talking about:
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/m.asp?m=197757

Check with John as from the above thread it seems a UK Porsche can begin life in Cyprus(?)

That was merely that John's (and a few other cars) came from the factory without C16 on the sticker. It was a manufacturing error.

C98 is Cyprus, and it is not uncommon for certain "independant" Porsche Specialists to order cars from Cyprus, and sell them outside of the Official Porsche network in the UK as a "new" car.
We have at least one Boxster owner on the board that bought a car new from one of these dealers, and found the 2 year warranty only had 18 months left to run.
The car's warranty had of course started when it was sold from the Porsche Dealership in Cyprus to it's first owner - the dealer that eventually sold it in the UK. [:'(] To thier credit, I understand the independant in this case extended the warranty themselves for the extra 6 months. I wonder if they do this for those that don't notice though...?

 

[simonm]

You have my complete sympathy because where money is at stake, the truth is not always apparent! And especially so, where the registration appears to be known by Porsche when honouring (or getting out of?) the warranty. For all I know there may be an understanding that all cars imported, are presumed to have been sold within a month(or similar), and for the warranty to be assumed as 25 months from import where the date of registration is unknown.

A previously registered car imported from abroad has to be registered on a Q plate because the current registration would be misleading and a Q plate would need further evidence, such as the VIN number, or the model "˜shape', to identify its approximate date of manufacture. Whilst it might not be difficult to show that a car has been registered e.g. either in the UK or Cyprus, it might be difficult to show that it hadn't been registered anywhere else.

What is the C16 (or C98) sticker "" where can it be seen, and if it's a sticker how do you know if it's genuine? Is there a plate somewhere with this information along with a list of build options?

 

[Mark_Bennett]

C98 means it was built for Cyprus
C16 means built for the UK

The sticker on Pre-987, 997 cars was under the bonnet, with a duplicate in the front of the Service and Maintenance book

For the 987 and 997 the sticker under the bonnet seems to have disappeared, and you will only find it in the Service and Maintenance book.

C16 (or C98 - or whatever depending on the country for which the car was built...) will normally be the first of the option codes listed on this sticker.

 

[hg..]

Simon, I beleive the warranty starts from the date the service booklet is stamped following a PDI. If the car is then imported and sold in the uk the dealer wouldn't extend this date, this is a warranty from Porsche so why should they?
The C98 is on the sticker which is on page 4 of the service book. All the 996 Porsches come with 2 identical stickers, one for the service booklet, the other goes inside the front bonnet. It would be very difficult to remove without showing some signs of damage, anyway it has the VIN on it which is also on several other places on the car.
There is definitely something not quite roght about this car, I accept that an o5 reg car may have been built in late 2004, but not early 2003!

 

[Rotorhead]

ORIGINAL: simonm

A previously registered car imported from abroad has to be registered on a Q plate because the current registration would be misleading and a Q plate would need further evidence, such as the VIN number, or the model "˜shape', to identify its approximate date of manufacture. Whilst it might not be difficult to show that a car has been registered e.g. either in the UK or Cyprus, it might be difficult to show that it hadn't been registered anywhere else.

[:-]