996 C4S Tip Cabrio - RMS/IMS leak

[blytha]

Hi,
I recently went to PC Tonbridge to make use of the Kent regions usual Spring Health Check and had a really good time, discussing my car and talking to other owners and the mechanics. Well organised by Pearl Sharland. As a result of the visit I found that I had a Grade 3 (who knows what this means) RMS/IMS oil leak.
With the Tiptronic I don't have any other reason to separate the gearbox and engine, so I thought I would bite the bullet and look at getting quotes to do the repair and whilst I was at it either get the LNE IMS bearing or have the DOF kit fitted.
Well, I've emailed a number of Porsche Independents and also got a quote from PC Tonbridge, whose price was very reasonable (£878 in vat 6.5 hrs), but they do not do the IMS bearing or any other update so this was only for the RMS, which may not have been the cause of the leak.
I've had three responses (most taking up to a week responding to an email and then not responding to follow ups) with a price of around £2000 inc vat. (I also need a full service and possibly a new front o/s wheel bearing - not included in estimates but info has been passed on)

1. The LNE IMS bearing in one quote was £775+vat, which was a bit over the top as I can get one from Design911 for around £450+vat and they would not fit a part I purchased! This was a good quote and well broken down.
2. No figure just number of hours was 4-6 hours over the other estimates, so I don't really know what the cost would be. However, the information provided in the email was more thorough on deciding whether the IMS was necessary, but no follow up call when I rang and the service manager was not free.
3. Just a figure and did not break the values down.

I've not apportioned any company to their actions as this is just a general request for feedback, not a slight on any service.
So my question are, are independents so busy that they're :

• not willing to provide a detailed estimate for a piece of work that is over £2000
• willing to lose work because they are charging 50% more for a part I can get from a reputable firm for much less
• can provide work/hour estimates that are 50% more than the others for the same task
• not respond in a timely fashion or just think that they are a service we just rely on and Customer service is not expected

I also asked a question as to whether any one of the companies had any preferences / experiences of IMS retrofit against IMS DOF kit. I've read all of the stuff on the internet and most of it is rhetoric and bluster.
Now I'm left with no real idea on where to go next or what to do, maybe I need to pick up the phone or actually go and see each independent!
Has any one got any suggestions on where I should go. (These are the people I've requested info from (Project Nine Engineering, La Rose Porsche, Paragon, WrightTune)
Cheers,
Anthony

 

[Pieman7]

Hi Anthony give HP Motorsport in Essex come recommended by design 911

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

If you are set on having an IMS bearing fitted, try Revolution Porsche. They are in Brighouse, so quite a distance, but they have lots of experience in all types of retrofit. Give them a call and speak to Russ, and I'm sure he would be happy to talk you through the options.

 

[RCS]

I'd second Richard - speak with Revolution in Brighouse, always give straightforward honest advice. Understand they now even have a U tube type video facility showing you your car and any issues whilst they are working on it, just like some other brand main dealers. Russ has also negotiated reduced B&B rates locally for those coming from a long distance and staying over. They get a lot of owners travelling from the south and northerly reaches to use them. You also get the benefit of being able to drive some fantastic roads and see some great scenery whilst up here.

Disclaimer : I've no connection with the company other than a very satisfied user.

 

[Gordon Attar]

You really need to call Porsche specialists most of them are working Mechanics who don't have the time to spend an hour or two explaining various options and quoting for jobs as key boarding skills are not there forte.

Suggest you call Northways near Reading who are well known for being cost efficient Tel no. 01189714333

 

[blytha]

Hi All,
Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately I haven't got time to ring round all the independents, so that's why I emailed them. By emailing I ensured I said the same to them all when asking for a quote.
I wouldn't under estimate any of their email abilities, maybe its just time they don't have.

I've spoken to Pete from Paragon today and he's assuaged some of my concerns and has even suggested it may not even be worth having the bearing changed unless it has some signs of wear. He did suggest talking to Hartech, as they have the most experience of the issue, due to the number of engines they deal with, So I'm going to do that before I decide on my next step.
I'll have a look at Brighouse, but I don't have the holiday available to go up there unless its on a weekend.

Thanks again and any more comments are welcome.

Anthony

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

No doubt Hartech have lots of experience, but I think you'll find they won't replace the IMS bearing in-situ.

 

[blytha]

Thanks Richard. I was more interested in whether they think the bearing should be replaced at all.

cheers

 

[wibble]

Not sure what is termed a grade 3 oil leak. Although not so common as RMS seal leaking, it is possible that the IMS housing is leaking (or both). If this is that case, then that does not necessarily mean you need to replace the IMS bearing itself.

Both these can be tackled with engine in-situ with just the transmission removed, so labour costs drop. It is a chance to inspect clutch and brake pipework when this is done at the same time.

 

[Pieman7]

I'm sure porsche have a grading system from 1-5 on oil leaks so 3 seems in the middle. I thought if you had a tiptronic gear box to change the Ims bearing I was told that the engine and tip box both have to come out. The manual gear box cars only the gear box comes out to do the Ims? Maybe Richard Hamilton can help.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

I don't think you can get the MB Tiptronic box out without removing the engine (3.6 cars) but I recall someone once told me they removed a ZF box (3.4 engine) by itself. I'm not sure if that is true though.

 

[Pieman7]

That's typical Richard as you said mine my tip box

 

[blytha]

All of the garages I spoke to say the gb has to be removed and it takes between 10 and 16 hours!

 

[Gordon Attar]

I will start again looking at your list of contacted specialists, the best two in the area you covered are Northways and Tognola, until you talk to them or see them WITH THE CAR you are only going to have an idea. The Northways quotes will be you best price guide.

RMS leaks should be a repeat dropping of oil on your drive after driving, lots of them are damp and quite a few will leave a small deposit after spirited driving. When most OPC's tell you thats expensive get a second opinion for your own safety.

If your doing the RMS then if its cost effective do the IMS particularily in City based Tiptronic cars.

 

[jpdaeschler]

Hi Anthony,

I attended the same Kent spring health check day at Porsche Tonbridge, so we must have brushed past each other! Although the report that came back for my car on the day was 99% clean, I wasn't too impressed with the diagnosis of very visible coolant leak and what looked like a failed hose. The dealerships initial approach to sorting the leak was replace everything associated with the leak to the tune of £800, rather than start with suspect hose and clamp at around £18.

Have you emailed/phoned Parr Porsche in Crawley? They have always been reasonable and responsive for my car queries, even talking me out of doing some work as not required.

Cheers,
J-PD

 

[blytha]

Hi,
l've now had a second chat with Porsche and paragon and I'm now just going to have a standard service and a vibration check, and I've been told the oil leak can probably wait as its not too bad.
so I'm just going to wait for the results of the second check.

PC Tonbridge were great with me, they even helped me find where my friendly mouse got in, fortunately he was not in the car too long. After spending £13 and an hours effort the offending foam was replaced.

thanks for all the comments. I'll let you know how I get on.