996TURBO to 997S?????

Grant · Oct 20, 2005

Quick question has anyone made the move from 996TT to a 997S?
I have itchy feet, having had the TT for nearly three years now, still love it to bit's, but fancy a change. Would have tried an AMV8 but won't pay overs, the 997TT will be out next year, but OPC's are quoting over a years waiting time, minimum! Can't see anything else that appeals (thought about a Lambo Gallardo, but new clutches every 5k miles-ish puts me off big time!) the only other thing on radar is the 997S, I keep looking & wondering, but every time I floor the TT in second I think hell no & when I test drove one it felt slow & less tactile in comparison (although it certainly isn't) but the feet are itching!!
Any thoughts appreciated.
G.

THX911 · Oct 20, 2005

Have you considered the 997 C4S? or is the C4S you are referring to and not the C2S...

jcosh · Oct 20, 2005

I also have itchy feet, mainly because I have just sold my GT3 RS and want to find something a little more road based for a year or so. I'm also thinking about a C2S, but am concerned that I will miss the power of the RS. There is a power kit coming for the 997 that will crease power to 380hp, but it costs 8k. This seems like a lot of dosh for an extra 30hp - it does include the sports exaust though. I like the idea of this combination, but not the price as I want to buy used and I probably won't find used ones for a least a year.

Cheers Jonathan

Guest · Oct 20, 2005

Although I can see where you are coming from, since I have sold perfectly good cars in the past just because I was bored, I would think that you would regret it.

Whilst I am sure the 997S is worthy, and no doubt handles well (if not better), it does not have the 2nd gear grunt. I can imagine that after the novelty wore off, you would want more.

I asked in Guildford about the 997TT (out of curiosity, I don't intend to get one) and they claimed a list of 18 months or so.
I think quite a few could be speculators.
In Autocar, there is some guy Harris (Richard?), who I think claims to have sold 3 996TT's with low/delivery miles at the start and made 10K on each. If this type of thing is being copied, then a lot of these orders are not real. I also suspect quite few people will lose some money.
If the economy does cool next year, I reckon quite few will not confirm their orders.

In the same performance mould, is the Gallardo, but I don't know about the reliability of them. I know you could wreck the clutch on the Diablo with one bodged standing start. But I thought the Gallardo was a flappy paddle thing, so how does it kill the clutch so quickly?
There is a 360 or 420 Modena, but not quite so useable, practical or cheap to run, and attracts too much attention.
For sheer grunt, I guess there is one of the 7 litre Corvettes, but it's not quite the same driving experience (or interior quality).
There's the TVR experience, but they are too much of a toy, rather than a useable car.

More sensible would be Merc AMG something or other, but will the electrics work and is it focussed enough.
Otherwise, I guess there is the M5/M6.

I don't know what a 2nd hand Vanquish goes for, but I guess that is the closest match. Not sure what the ownership experience is like though.

Frankly I think you will have to just stick with the 996TT, since there is nothing else with the same match of performance, handling, reliability, usability, running costs, image, pedigree, etc.

Unless you change it for another 996TT, in a different colour, or a GT3.

CHewlett · Oct 20, 2005

Earlier this year I sold my 996TT (2001) owned from new and replaced it with a new 997S, although the 997S is a great car and I love driving it, I do miss the grunt from the 996TT. Am waiting patiently for a new 997 Turbo!

oliver · Oct 21, 2005

The new 997 is without doubt a terrifically accomplished car and, for real world usablity and practicality, it is probably unmatched. However, I have a few misgivings about it:

1. It is hardly 'breathtaking'. It lacks the heart pumping excitment that you might get from an Aston, Ferrari, Lambo, or 996TT

2. There are/will be simply too many around. Most people wouldn't be able to distinguish a 997 from a 996 and they no longer make an individualistic statement. Great if you like subtlety, but the days of modern 911 ownership putting anyone amongst the cognicenti are well past

3. It's worth considering the financial consequences. The 996TT is a near £100k car (albeit worth quite a lot less now). If you sell it you will be realising the depreciation, only to put the proceeds into a £70k car which will rapidly lose another £10k[

].

If I was a 'turbo person' (which I'm not - prefer my 911s normally aspirated, 2wd and light and simple) I would keep the 996TT but put my name for a 997TT and pester my OPC every month to push me up the list. They will get more allocations and, if you change your mind, you've lost nothing. But, if the 997TT turns out to be another world beater and, in two years time, you are not well up the list, then you might have a very long wait.

Other option, in the meantime, is to buy a depreciation-free classic 911. Lots to consider - 2.4S, 911CS, 964RS or, if it must have a turbo - a 930T.

Grant · Oct 22, 2005

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input, think I will end up sticking with TT for a while longer, although may toy with the idea of a TT cab. or "S". I have to say one of the things I hate about buying cars is depreciation and this is one of the things that puts me off the likes of the DB9 & Gallardo, I think these cars are in for a big hit once more second hand supply comes through. As Stuart says speculators are helping pump up new supply which is creating more high end volume than the second hand market can sustain, you only have to look at 996 prices, even Porsche isn't what it used to be, and the higher volume sales continue with the 997 range. It will ok if you are into the 997TT early, but even that will go into free fall after the first 18-24 months, hey ho, love cars hate the money they loose. Of course Oliver is right buy an older or classic model & depreciation will be very low, but unfortunately the whole classic thing doesn't float my boat (each to their own).
Thanks again for the answers, keep em coming.
G

Guest · Oct 22, 2005

There are two cars I didn't mention before (since you can't buy them yet) that I think are worth looking out for.

There is the Nissan Skyline GT-R.
It has just been unveiled (again) at the Tokyo motor show. It is not scheduled for launch until the next Tokyo motor show in 2007.
The styling of the front wings is a bit "challenging", but apart from that it looks quite good.
Same 2+2 configuration, and twin turbo experience as the 996.
Front engined, but still 4-wd, and Nissan like to make cars that go sideways in a controllable manner.
The next one should have 450-500 bhp out of the box, so no need to go tuning it.
The issue will be how much it weighs, and whether it attracts too much max-power/playstation/yoof attention. If they can keep the weight down an keep the styling low key, then it could be a nice car and should be reliable.

There is also Toyota to consider.
Apparently they are supposed to finally confirm that they are doing a sports/GT car with a V10 engine. Not sure what it is going to look like though (I have seen a few pictures, but I'm not convinced) or when they might get round to launching it, but I would guess in the next 2 years.
If they take some their know-how from F1 and put it into a road car, it could be pretty impressive.

(I don't know why Honda have given up - they will not even replace the Civic type R. Unless they have something secret up their sleeves.)

Now the voluntary 280bhp limit has been removed, we are just in the interval until the Japanese try to take on the upper echelons.
They may struggle in Europe, due to the image/badge snobbery, but in the US they could well succeed. Which will knock Porsche's profits. Although if the cars are good enough, I think they have a chance anywhere.

I think Porsche will retain the edge, but if you don't drive at 100% (which you can't on the road) will people continue to pay the premium?

Ken993T · Oct 22, 2005

You should try the SL55 AMG, I've had mine for twelve months and it really is a great car, great power, noise and roof down motoring. I have taken it on the track once and was very surprised how good it was, handling was great and nearly as quick as my 993tt running 470 bhp. Depreciation is a bit of an issue, if you want to save some cash I would buy a twelve month old one, with the pace car pack if you can find one.

I've driven the Gallardo and that is a different experience again, a hard ride with lots of noise, I'm not sure that it's an every day car.

Guest · Oct 23, 2005

I just re-read your posts.
Get yours chipped. Or swap for an X50 car and get it chipped.
The car can handle more power.
You could also lower it, for a more focussed ride.
Rather than waste thousands changing, play with what you have.
(If you can live with compromising the warranty. I am going to get my 120K miles worth (7 years) before playing with it.)

jerry911sc · Oct 23, 2005

Don't know about the new Skyline but the outgoing one is awesome as standard (let alone modified). At Brands it had a a line all of it's own most notably around Clearways. For sheer fun behind the wheel I reckon a 400bhp skyline (new or modified earlier car) would be hard to beat. http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/nismo_gt-r_z-tune.asp...... but it's not a you know what.... from Weissach

Grant · Oct 24, 2005

Hmm more food for thought!
Stuart, the Lexus V10 did catch my eye, if the M5/M6's (thought about both, but they will have free fall style depreciation, just look at the old M5 & 8 series!!) screaming 500bhp V10 is anything to go by it should prove interesting. As for the Skyline, fabulous car but I feel I have been there in the past having owned a twin turbo Supra, Sierra Cosworth (etc.) many years back. With regards to chipping the car, I'm not comfortable with modifying Pork beyond sports exhausts etc crucifies re-sale!
Ken: I have had a brief drive in an SL55 but although nearly as fast as the TT (with a great sound) I didn't find it as engaging/involving to drive and want a car that makes me take it out just for the driving! Having said this maybe I should try one for longer if you have come out of a 993TT & still enjoy it, what does the "pace car pack add to the party"?.

Guest · Oct 24, 2005

I don't know what you're looking for.
The only thing that will out do the 996TT is the 997TT (probably).
So if you want the same, only more so, but don't want to mod the current car, you'll have to wait.

Ken993T · Oct 24, 2005

Grant

I've still got the 993TT, that's my toy, my company car is is an SL55. I bought the Merc because I already had the 993 and I thought it was pointless buying the 996 when it was on it's way out, I've got a deposit on the 997TT so the Merc will go when that arrives. Whilst clearly my preference is Porsche, the Merc is entertaining, you have to be very careful with 500 bhp going through the rear wheels, especially in the wet.

The pace car option gives you SL65 front bumper, it's much more aggressive, bigger brakes and different suspension settings. The car is designed to look like the forumula one SL pace car. In black it looks great, it's stands out much more than the Porsche and is more exclusive, but I'm still looking forward to the 997.

sniper · Oct 29, 2005

Getting the 996 TT "chipped" via a company like AMD or DMS is surely an option? for arounf £3-4K I think, you can have 500+BHP - seems like an option. Also had superb write up in EVO etc.

PGAdamopoulos · Nov 2, 2005

I hear all, but my opinion is that the 996 series is a milestone in the 911 production line.
Although, for many different reasons, has sold in biggish numbers, I am sure that in years to come it will always be appreciated.
I will keep and enjoy mine for as long as I dare, and then pass it down for another generation to enjoy.
Today I would exchange it only for a:
1. Porsche 959
2. Bugatti Veyron
3. Ferrari F50
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Gary Bullen · Nov 2, 2005

ORIGINAL: jcosh

I also have itchy feet, mainly because I have just sold my GT3 RS and want to find something a little more road based for a year or so. I'm also thinking about a C2S, but am concerned that I will miss the power of the RS. There is a power kit coming for the 997 that will crease power to 380hp, but it costs 8k. This seems like a lot of dosh for an extra 30hp - it does include the sports exaust though. I like the idea of this combination, but not the price as I want to buy used and I probably won't find used ones for a least a year.

Cheers Jonathan

What about a Citroen C2 Furio. You can certainly get a couple of baby seats in them. Looks cool in the McDonalds drive through as well.

robert997 · Nov 2, 2005

Grant, I've never driven a 996 TT, but why don't you tease an OPC into offering you a Test Drive Plus on the 997 ?? From what I remember it's on road and track so you should get a great feel for the car. Unless you buy wisely you'll probably lose a good 10% + if you traded for a 997TT in a years time though...[

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Grant · Nov 3, 2005

Hi Rob,
Thanks for that, sounds like a good idea, I do love the 997.
Trouble is as the weather has got slghtly colder & damper the Turbo is filling its lungs with more conviction, just got back from a B road business blast and the adrenaline is still pumping from the sheer ballistic thrust and sure footed handling of the beastie!

carrera4boy · Nov 4, 2005

Grant
Well i sat in a 997 C4S today with new GT3 Aerokit. Can i just say that it is the dogs danglies. They have them at Reading OPC. Just walk in and the sales guy will sneak you round the back. Blimey £50 million of cars too.

There was also an Orange 997, 4 Carrera GTs and 6 Caymans. see the Gumball Carrera GT in the background of this shot taken today. Simon 996 C4