997 C4S vs 996 C4S

[Guest]

I have just joined the PCGB. I have previously owned a 996 C4S 03/03, kept it for a year, did 14K, lost 12 1/2 grand, selling it in March 2004. []Apart from the small-village-in-Somerset size chip on my shoulders (I am a balanced person- I have one on each), given that the depreciation I suffered is 1) Ford Mondeo in its % and 2) not supposed to be what happens with a popular 911, you (and Porsche) maybe somewhat surprised to hear that I have ordered a new 997 C4S. This will be delivered in March.[8|]

Basic spec: black/black, sports exhaust, PCM/phone, sports seats, manual, carrera sport wheels.[]

The question I would like members opinion on is this. Given that I can get a decent (age/mileage) 996 C4S for 50-55K, is the 997 C4S so much better as to justify the large premium? Yes, I will do trackdays, maybe 4 a year. Yes, I may take it to Germany once or twice.

Perhaps building on the above, anyone have a view about the new car's likely depreciation over, say, one and two years? I appreciate that (even) a Porsche will depreciate, but I was hoping for rather better than 18% after 11 months!

Whilst I appreciate that this forum is for 997s, and so turkeys-forChristmas comes to mind wrt members suggesting that a 996 might be better than a 997, I do assume that at least some members will have owned both, in one variant or another.[]

 

[bobfair]

I owned a 996C4 and I now have a 997C2S. In my opnion the quality of the 997 is a big improvement on the 996 and it is a much better car. As to whether the depreciation will be any diffferent it is impossible to say. I kept my C4 for over 2 years did 20k miles and a lot of track days and I only lost £10k but I sold in 2003 before the 997 was in view. Porsche are making a lot of cars which is one of the problems but the depreciation problem is hitting all expensive cars. In my view buy the 997 and enjoy it and dont worry about the cost as you only live once. I dont know of any cheaper way to buy this performance with this heritage and quality

 

[oliver]

Depreciation is, unfortunately, the real cost of owning almost any prestige car, and I think you might have fared even worse with Ferrari, Aston Martin, Mercedes, BMW etc.

I have been considering changing my 996 for a new 997 (see threads elsewhere), but on purely financial grounds it makes no sense. Firstly I realise a loss on my current, perfectly excellent, 996. Then I find another £35k to purchase a new 997, which will, in turn, immediately start haemorrhaging value[:-].

Your situation is slightly different, because you have already realised the loss on your 996C4S. However, although the 997C4S will be a marginally better car, it will probably only replicate your past experience.

You'll need to weigh up the merits of 996/997 ownership, decide what you really want and then, ideally, keep the car for the longer term.

Mind you, I can tell you from personal experience - it's far easier to give advice than to take it[&:].

 

[nsm3]

My OPC contact told me to expect to lose about £8k per annum with 10-12k mileage.

My C2S was secondhand, 14 months old and £9k under the "build your Porsche" price I calculated from the website. Assuming the owner got £2 to £3k less than that from the OPC, he has lost £11- 12k from new, which stacks up against your experience?

I have just traded my April'03 M3 in at a depreciation of £18k, which is about £6k per annum, but at 1 year old the market prices indicated that it had lost about £10k, so again the pattern is very similar.

As a previous poster said, the only way to reduce the average annual depreciation is to hang onto 'em? (not sure what I could afford to buy that would be better anyway!)

 

[robert997]

Derek congratulations on the C4S, you won't be disappointed ![]

However, depreciation is a major problem and as Porsche drive volumes towards 100,000 cars per year then things are going to get worse. However, the 997 has at least 5 years left before a 998 arrives. Also, losing what you did means only about 20% first-year depreciation which is a low as it goes really. A painful £££ figure and nothing compared to what they were only a few years ago, where you could get a new one every year with next-to-no-loss. Try putting 14k on a new Ferrari/Bentley/Aston in a year and that will lose more than 20%, guaranteed.

 

[keithpms]

I had exactly the same dilemna last year, changing my 2 year old 996 C4S (which I had from new) for a 997 C4S at the start of November 2005.

Despite my best negotiating efforts, I lost almost £20k on the 996 C4S over the two year period (was told values had fallen significantly throughout 2005 due to the imminent arrival of the new model). I must say I was more than happy with the car, but could only see values falling further as early 996's moved into the £mid-twenties.

Finally took the view (rightly or wrongly) that despite not having seen a 997 C4S in the flesh, I would take the big hit this time and keep the new car for longer than two years. In line with others comments, I agree we have to accept the days of premiums on any new porsche and low depreciation have long gone due primarily to high volume production.

The good news .... in my opinion the 997 C4S is a significantly better car than the 996 C4S. Quality is much improved (despite the "registers" list of problems, I have only had one minor problem with the PCM telling me the rain sensors are faulty - despite rain sensors not being fitted). The driving experience is also improved - better steering, brakes, gearchange and more power. It also looks better (particularly in basalt black), although a full width reflector strip would be nice.

And finally, go with your heart and not your head.........

Keith

 

[Michael Downing]

Last year I took a 997S out on an extended test drive - my 996 C4S was a year old at the time.

I was very impressed with the 997. It is indeed a marginal improvement on the 996, as you would expect. There's no way I'll trade up in the short term, though, as the improvements do not justify the four figure sum needed to change and it would entail losing my first Porsche "wot I saved up for for ages like" and to which I therefore have a slight sentimental attachment. And I think she likes me, too []

If I had already sold the 996, however, I would look at the 997 in preference, as the newer model will always retain more value. I'd probably wait for the s/h prices to slide first, though.

 

[Rob Edwards]

Hi
I agree with much that Bob says - the 997S is a great piece of kit with better fit and finish inside.

However, the days of Porsche as a small volume manufacturer which helped buoy prices have long gone - I view my car as an outlay for 'enjoyment' so am aware that I am essentially losing a lot of cash quite quickly, especially over the 1st year. That's why I change the car every 3 yrs or so ( the first year depreciation would be too much to bear thinking about!).

Of course, you can help reduce the depreciation by purchasing some of the more 'niche' a lower volume Porsches, like the GT3, which IMHO might hold their values better than the 'mainstream' models. You might get some better insight into this by enquiring in the GT3 Forum, I'm sure there are some nutty pilots in there who can advise![]

As Bob says, just ENJOY!!

Regards
Rob

 

[Guest]

Firstly, thanks to all who have replied thus far. Free, knowledgeable, friendly, unbiased advice- you can't beat it and I am most grateful. Yes, Rob, you can put that in PP!

Rob, the photo of your 997 in black really does rather make me think that I should stick with my order- you git!

Clearly I sold my 996 C4S when 1) it was not even a year old, 2) it was 'over-miles' for its age and 3) the 997 was due, though without a single photo in the press at that point. I was even more annoyed after I saw what my OPC put it up for compared to what they gave me. nsm3, you suggest that the chap that sold what is now your car to the OPC for 2-3K less than what you paid for it. Whilst I cannot be certain what they actually sold my car for (though I did ring anonymously offering a price, so I know there was little room for negotiation), they wanted some 9K more than what they paid me. I know what Porsche have to do to put a car up as Used Approved, but I actually got the exact cost from the OPC Principal (as I made a complaint to him about all this) as to what costs they incurred: £1,700! This was for the standard nose re-spray as there was no warranty extension, no new tyres needed, no service etc... So, they made whatever profit when I bought it and then almost the same again when they sold it the second time around. Now, the coffee is good in OPCs, but not that good. Hence the shoulder chips.

I will obviously need to keep the car for longer than a year and try to do fewer miles, but, as people have said, the significantly higher volumes means depreciation is a much bigger factor than before. And don't you just love the Boxster winning awards for its (apparent) lack of depreciation? Again, I think this is due to mis-leading figures. I believe that these surveys look at what the price was brand new and what it subsequently seels for secondhand. If, as is almost always the case, this is via an OPC both times around (I couldn't find the slightest interest privately when trying to sell my 996 C4S), then here lies the problem. What the OPC sells the car for secondhand bares little resemblance to what the first owner got from them. The actual depreciation is much higher, even if it transpires that my particular circumstances were unusually costly.

Enough ranting. Thanks again to all.

Derek

 

[Michael Downing]

ORIGINAL: Derek A
Now, the coffee is good in OPCs, but not that good.

It's still fairly good, though ..... [] Maybe you need to visit more often so that you can drink more of it? []

Seriously, I'd agree that keeping the car for longer would be a good idea, but I'd disagree with keeping the miles off it. Every time I drive her I kick myself for not doing it more often!

Best of luck whichever way you go.