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997 - Ferrari comparison

Porrohman

New member
I am seriously considering adding a Ferrari 360/430 to compliment my 997 which I am now using on a daily basis. The Ferrari would then be my low mileage plaything. I would be interested in hearing the experiences of those of you that have owned both marques. How will the Ferrari compare with the 997 in usability, reliability and running costs? Should I just trade my 997 C2 in for a Turbo instead?

Also I am a full member and have been for over 3 years. Why does it list me as being a guest of the club?
 
I can only answer the last question (link below) as I haven't owned a Fezza - I'm sure Clive will be along soon to fill you in on that!

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=235860

PS - I'm very happy with my Gen2 turbo though[;)]

 
Thanks for the link. I had to do this when I first joined 3 years ago but did not think I had to do it each year.
 
You shouldn't have to do it each year [&:] unless the system was reset..

Clive and Derek both should have information for you..

garyw
 
As Alex has mentioned my name it would seem churlish not to offer a view, albeit perhaps an iconoclastic one. For the last couple of years I have run a 997 turbo in parallel with a 430F1. Both cars from new so no worries about how previous owners might have treated them. And the Ferrari in 2008 came with a 4 year warranty as standard, whereas even in 2010 Porsche basic offer is 2 years, with an option to buy more.

The main issue in trying to compare the two as far as I am concerned was the Porsche was the latest in quite a long line stretching back to a 911E in 1975 whereas the Ferrari was my first experience of the marque. Indeed the first time I had ever sat in one was when it arrived on my drive. I think the point here is that to some extent I have become inured to Porsches foibles over the years and take quirks and idiosyncrasies as part of "the charm". But one thing is for sure it is a perfectly reliable convenient practical daily drive, as happy tootling round town as out on the open road, or running down to Barcelona in a day. The one area where the turbo is not that well suited is the track being a bit too heavy, but then there are other solutions to that problem.

There will be some who say the Ferrari also is a reliable daily drive but I would not be counted amongst them. For me I was always conscious that it attracted attention, often complimentary, but the fact that it is so visible makes you very careful where you leave it. And though it never let me down, I would be much more circumspect about a spur of the moment cross Europe trip, but maybe I'm just the nervous type.

I never liked the F1 box and if it were not for resale would have bought a manual. Heavy stop start traffic is not enjoyable and the concern about burning out the dryplate clutch always present. The counterpoint is that on the open road the F1 box comes into its element with the howl of the V8 and the auto blip on down changes becoming very addictive. And it is fast and easy to drive. Effortlessly so and without a digital speedo it is all too easy to be going much quicker than intended. I'm not skilled enough to have it on the limit on the road but a day of corporate hostility at Silverstone showed its capabilities were immense.

So for me not a daily drive, too wide, too vulnerable, can't get the golf clubs in it and very difficult to see out of when reversing, this last illustrated by some very sweaty minutes trying to reverse half a mile out of a dead end between dry stone walls in northern Scotland. But though that experience is seared on my brain, so to was an ears pinned back run over the smooth open empty roads north of Fort William..! Now that is Ferrari country.

Obviously with a new car one would not expect any expensive unforeseen costs and indeed I had no warranty issues. But...it needs servicing every year. The first one was basically an oil change but still cost £1075.32. And I sold just before the second one was due! And if I had kept it I would have asked them to sort out the clonking of the front suspension, a known weakness and warranty point. Then, despite an exclusive diet of V Power, it pinked at times which is not good and suggested to me that it was more stressed than is entirely practical for a day to day road car. And as an example of other practical issues, beware the front PU is not PU but brittle fibre glass. The slightest bump and it will crack and you are looking at £4-5K. So the point here is that running costs are much higher than Porsche equivalent, even the tracker was 50% more for the same service. I would say a factor of 3 on running costs between Ferrari and Porsche but others may differ.

Overall I'm glad I have owned a Ferrari but I'm also glad I have sold it.

A few gratuitous pics

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You didn't mention the soon to arrive Turbo S either, Nick! Funny things, women. Bren was looking over my shoulder while I read your post and looked at the photos of the three stunning cars outside the garage. Her comment? Nice garage doors.................[:D]
 
Thanks for some very useful comments and great pictures. We go to Scotland 5-6 times a year and at least once a year I get to take the 997 for a blast and to take in a few distilleries. The drive from Pitlochry to Braemar, Inverness to Torridon and through Glen Coe is amazing and doing it in a Ferrari must be awesome. It is clear from what you have said that a Ferrari is very much a weekend car.
 
Mmmm, you're looking for a plaything for special occasions, right?

Then in my mind, it's a no brainer - Ferrari every time! [:)]

You'll feel a million dollars just as soon as, and each and every time, you sit in it. In turns heads, puts smiles on people's faces and draws interest and conversation wherever you go. (This used to happen with Porsches 30 years ago!) People love 'em and there still aren't that many on the road. It's very special and you get invitations to all the best shows! [8|]

From a practical point of view, it handles better than a 911 - all the lumpy bits are in the right place and the normally inducted engine is easier to drive quickly than a turbo. More expensive to run yes, but you'll be doing low mileage, so it's not a big consideration.

For a balanced view, you should also ask the same question in a Ferrari forum, but if you need to ask it at all, then maybe Ferrari's not for you. It's all about passion - heart versus head and all that.

Ferrari have never promoted economy [:D] but it's a reliable supercar, the F1 box is supreme and clutch is fine. I've done over 12K in my Scuderia with less than 25% clutch wear and that's after a track day, several hillclimbs and a sprint.

Don't worry about thousand pound oil changes either - I've just done one for £75. Bought the oil on Ebay and changed it myself, easy.

One tip, if you're seriously considering it and the budget allows, get a 430 - it has a chain driven engine and therefore has no belt change to worry about. Enjoy.

TwoOftheBestMedium.jpg

Now which shall I use today!​

Regards,

Clive
 

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

You didn't mention the soon to arrive Turbo S either, Nick!  Funny things, women.  Bren was looking over my shoulder while I read your post and looked at the photos of the three stunning cars outside the garage.  Her comment?  Nice garage doors.................[:D]

They are nice garage doors! - I was looking at them too - has given me an idea for a project I'm on...

But I was more interested in Nick's 3rd pic - A fine view of Buachaille Etive Mòr (the mountain sticking out of his roof) from Rannoch Moor - a road I drive often - but the sun colour and direction makes me think Nick wakes up earlier than I do - not sure I've ever seen the sun from that direction - that must be pre-6am
 
Good work Mark!

Spot on. It's not often you see the Buachaille like that. There are some mighty rock climbs on those forbidding walls and many a time in the early '70's I drove up from London with great intentions only to sit in the car listening to the rain and avoiding the midges.

On this trip I stopped overnight south of Lochearnhead and made a 4.30 start. The time stamp on the Buchaille photo in the previous post is 5.07. Then via Fort William to Commando Monument arriving 5.50. Shot of Five Sisters towards Kyle of Lochash is 6.12 and Breakfast in Ullapool 8.29. So 240 miles in 4 hours just on the legal limit I'd say. Eased off after that but was in the Summer Isles at 10.39. Marvellous!

TriptoScotlandJune200914exreg.jpg


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TriptoScotlandJune2009.jpg
 
Not in Nick's league but I've run an F355 for years, not a huge mileage but it's been pretty reliable and is a lovely car to drive apart from the oh-my-gawd feeling when the steering goes light in the wet. Manual shift, pre-airbag wheel. But, I agree with Nick that you can never really go anywhere in it because you can't leave it anywhere without attracting all sorts of attention. It's low and wide and road humps and width restrictions in London are a pain. Instead, it's a weekend fun car for me and there's no way I'd ever sell it.

I stretch the oil service to 2 years (from 1) and the belts to 5 (from 3). Routine servicing is reasonably inexpensive but every time it goes in to Bob Houghton's, I get a laundry list of extra things which need doing. The belts are about £1500, two new cats were over £3k. Then there's heat shields, perished boots and the rest but then my 996 turbo needed a lot of work when I p-ex'd it. High performance cars cost, period.
 
Hi Darren, I have had 3 997's including 2 Gen 2's. I also have had a brand new 360 Modena. I now own a 360 Spider. Both manual.

In April 2006, I wrote an article called 'An Italian Mistress' for Porsche Post. I compared 997 Gen 1 with 360. I came to the conclusion that as sexy as the 360 was, it could not rival the 997 for reliability and everyday practicality. We parted and three 997s were to follow.

Since then I have missed the sight and sound of that red Italian stallion. Wonderful though a PDK 997 2 is, it cannot possibly match the charisma and pure adrenaline rush one gets from a Ferrari. True, my PDK Cab did just about everything so much better than a 360.. performance, economy, reliability. But I slowly began to realise just what one needed from a true sports car. It begs to be admired, it should look a million dollars and it should sound like a banshee on heat. Sadly no 997, not even a turbo, comes close.

Then there is the depreciation..... Don't talk to me about that. When I bought my 997.2 I could have bought a California. I ask you, a California! With the Porsche I lost £25K in 10 months usage and a handful of miles. I would have lost nothing if I have bought the Ferrari.

But such is life and most new cars depreciate. I now have an ultra low mileage 360 Spider. Whereas I drove the 997 as little as possible (sad that I am) in order to minimise its residual value, I now take my Italian Mistress out for a spin as often as the sun shines. And it has shone a lot recently.

So buy with your heart, not with your head.

 

ORIGINAL: Lancerlot



Don't worry about thousand pound oil changes either - I've just done one for £75. Bought the oil on Ebay and changed it myself, easy.

Fair point Clive and good on you for doing it yourself, and for generally making enthusiastic use of the Scud.

Of course it is not really the oil you are paying for (though you are charged a spicy premium even for that, £14.99 plus VAT per litre!), it is the transfer of the ink from the main dealer's stamp to your service book that costs the earth, but is a sine qua non to keeping the four year warranty valid.

And though I have inadvertently crossed out the part of your post dealing with the F1 box, I must beg to differ and would chose double clutch or double declutch ahead of F1.

Cheers

Nick
 
Much as I am a fan of Porsche PDK, I know that the manual clutch in my 360 should last 45000 miles, but I understand an F1 clutch will only last 7500!
 
Cheers guys some really great comments. I have always wanted a Ferrari and clearly the decision to buy one is made by the heart not the head. It would be a weekend and special trip plaything and I live in rural Norfolk with a private parking space at work so the issues some of you suffer in London is not a problem. The comments have inspired me more to get one. Even more the brilliant photographs of Scotland have reminded me that I must take the 997 up there again very soon.
 
All I can add is as follows:

Owned a 360 and a brand new 430 both with F1 boxes. The cars are very pleasing to the eye, but even though I enjoyed the ownership, I did find the following negatives.

1) You will not be able to park it anywhere out of site
2) It will provide a lot of attention
3) if not new and not purchased from a Ferrari dealer you will find some repair bills steep, front ball joints go on 360's and 430's and cost about £750 a side, mine went in under 2000 miles both sides and then again one side after 600 miles. F1 Clutch can last as little as 6000 miles (depends how used), replacement cost £3K approx +.
4) Ferrari warranty is more forgiving than Porsche, its 4 years long from 2007, and used can get as long as 2 years.
5) faults I experienced, poor paint, very very common on Ferrari, I am very active in the FOC and www.fcars.co.uk where many of my car friends do complain about the service issues on them. One has a 612 from new and its spent in 2 years 11 months in for repairs "under warranty". Engines are very well build but body work while getting better is not even in the same "room" as Porsche.
6) As a Sunday best car great, but don't expect the running costs to be cheap. typical service each year of 6000 miles is £1K and majors will double that. Depreciation, mine was a brought new in MID 2007 with ceramics (only cars after that had ceramics as standard) for £142K very high spec, sold after 4200 miles and in Feb 2010 for £85K and on the forecourt for £93K at Egham at the time.

I have had 5 Porsche's and this latest GT3 RS is all the 430 was and more without the running costs, in fact all I can say is the F boys I am good friends with all say its sounds as good if not better and certainly goes as well.

IMO My GT3 RS out handles any 430 I have driven both standard and Scud, and even EVO mag states it is a match for the new 458. I am no expert nly haveing driven a few Scud at brands but the two cars are built to do teh same thing.

I end if you can afford it, a Ferrari is a must to have owned once, but whilst I loved looking at it, I hated the poor workmanship and expensive running costs for so little use, I am like many work dam hard for my money and hate making teh Ferrari garages even richer.

Many or the F boys run Porsche's and Ferraris/lambo's, most complain "behind" the scenes of the service costs, few keep them for more than 3-4 years.

Lovely cars but just keep your eyes open.


PS: This is comming from a Man who is mafried to an italian and know that many italians say the same "why cant ferrari build them better"
 
Chris Harris has done two very good videos comparing GT3RS with 458.

Well worth a look in my view

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/supercarvideos/251458/ferrari_458_italia_v_porsche_911_gt3_rs.html


There are two parts to the video one on the Porsche and one on the Ferrari

Are cars like wives or husbands? Do the best lookers make the best long term partners?
 

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