997 last Flat Six
- Thread starter tiskev
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Guest
New member
Where do you get your information from?
All the things I have read suggest that the 911 will stick with 6 cylinders, for the very reason that it has always had a flat 6 and it is an inherent part of the character of the car.
Porsche have said that it will not grow beyond 4 litres though, since it is not optimal and will change the character.
But there are ways to continue to extract more power and torque without adding more cylinders.
I have read speculation that the US would like an 8 cylinder version, but this seems to be discounted by the company.
Of course, nothing is impossible, but I think the 8, or maybe 10/12 cylinders are going to be for the Panamera and it shorter 2 door version.
All the things I have read suggest that the 911 will stick with 6 cylinders, for the very reason that it has always had a flat 6 and it is an inherent part of the character of the car.
Porsche have said that it will not grow beyond 4 litres though, since it is not optimal and will change the character.
But there are ways to continue to extract more power and torque without adding more cylinders.
I have read speculation that the US would like an 8 cylinder version, but this seems to be discounted by the company.
Of course, nothing is impossible, but I think the 8, or maybe 10/12 cylinders are going to be for the Panamera and it shorter 2 door version.
Ronnie C
New member
this type of speculation existed for the 996, that too was meant to be the last 6 and so many sources said the 997 was having a larger engine bay designed to accomodate an 8.
I think the 911 will always be rear engined and with a 6.
The new version '928' is where you'll see an 8 coming in the future.
I think the 911 will always be rear engined and with a 6.
The new version '928' is where you'll see an 8 coming in the future.
Guest
New member
The Carrera GT has a V10 and this has a very low centre of gravity thanks to the use of the small diameter ceramic clutch.
It is lower than would have been the case if it was a flat 10 with a conventional clutch.
I cannot see any reason for them to move away from the flat6 and certainly not to a V6. There would be no packaging or handling advantage.
Given that all the tooling exists for the current configuration, why scrap that.
It doesn't make sense to develop a new engine. The time to move was with the 996, since it introduced water cooling and was a clean sheet design (except for GT2/3 anbd TT). With that sort of investment, I think it is all groundless speculation.
It is lower than would have been the case if it was a flat 10 with a conventional clutch.
I cannot see any reason for them to move away from the flat6 and certainly not to a V6. There would be no packaging or handling advantage.
Given that all the tooling exists for the current configuration, why scrap that.
It doesn't make sense to develop a new engine. The time to move was with the 996, since it introduced water cooling and was a clean sheet design (except for GT2/3 anbd TT). With that sort of investment, I think it is all groundless speculation.
tiskev
New member
I think what has changed Stuart is the "Investment" in VW. You can call it economy of scale or synergy or some other fancy phrase as you wish. Also I have heard mention on this forum
that there is not too much more tuning left in the Flatty whereas the V8 and the W12 have enormous future potential?
that there is not too much more tuning left in the Flatty whereas the V8 and the W12 have enormous future potential?
Guest
New member
How much more power do you need?
I the real solution is to make the cars lighter. With carbon fibre, composites, and a bit of application, I am sure more weight can be removed from the cars.
When the Panamera arrives (plus the shortened 928 replacement if they do it), the luxury requirement is removed. The 911 can become more focussed.
By reducing weight you will have more performance for less fuel consumption, with more agility from a more tactile car. These are all part of the real Porsche heritage and where they initially made their name. Just putting bigger lumps in the cars is not their style (or least used not to be).
The optimum is around 600cc per cyclinder, although Porsche have said they consider they could go up to 4 litres for the flat 6.
100 bhp per litre from normally aspirated is quite easy, so if you stretch to 4 litres, you have 400 bhp for the entry model, then 450 should be possible for the tuned S version, with up to 200 bhp per litre for a turbo, giving up to 800 should they wish.
I don't think this is much of a problem.
My understanding is that once they have direct petrol injection, i.e. more like diesel, then they can get more power for less fuel, and if they can bring in pneumatic or solenoid controlled valves, even more is possible.
I think there is a lot of life yet for the 911 engine.
I do not think they could market a V6 of V8 engine car.
The VW engines do not have the right character.
I may be wrong, but I cannot see it happening.
Their invesment in VW is more more for the other parts, starter motors, wiper motors, air con systems, electrical bits, fuseboxes, airbags, lights, etc.
I the real solution is to make the cars lighter. With carbon fibre, composites, and a bit of application, I am sure more weight can be removed from the cars.
When the Panamera arrives (plus the shortened 928 replacement if they do it), the luxury requirement is removed. The 911 can become more focussed.
By reducing weight you will have more performance for less fuel consumption, with more agility from a more tactile car. These are all part of the real Porsche heritage and where they initially made their name. Just putting bigger lumps in the cars is not their style (or least used not to be).
The optimum is around 600cc per cyclinder, although Porsche have said they consider they could go up to 4 litres for the flat 6.
100 bhp per litre from normally aspirated is quite easy, so if you stretch to 4 litres, you have 400 bhp for the entry model, then 450 should be possible for the tuned S version, with up to 200 bhp per litre for a turbo, giving up to 800 should they wish.
I don't think this is much of a problem.
My understanding is that once they have direct petrol injection, i.e. more like diesel, then they can get more power for less fuel, and if they can bring in pneumatic or solenoid controlled valves, even more is possible.
I think there is a lot of life yet for the 911 engine.
I do not think they could market a V6 of V8 engine car.
The VW engines do not have the right character.
I may be wrong, but I cannot see it happening.
Their invesment in VW is more more for the other parts, starter motors, wiper motors, air con systems, electrical bits, fuseboxes, airbags, lights, etc.
Ronnie C
New member
for sure, and I do take your point, but you also need to factor in the technological advancements over the last 20 years. furthermore, what was being added in the aftermarket was not just lasting weeks or months; many of these regularly driven cars still function well today.
It may be more economical to produce equivilant amounts of power using more cylinders, but my point was that I don't think we are at the maximum limits of flat 6 engine technology by any means.
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