997 running costs. Pay more for a newer one or buy an older one and accept more repairs?

[Brisel]

I’m new here, having joined PCGB last year. I aim to scratch a long term itch for a 997 this year. The current car is a MB C63 AMG that has been off the road awaiting a new oil cooler radiator for 12 weeks. I digress….

I have driven various older Porsches, and I fit best in the newer versions of the Boxster, Cayman and 997. I’m 6’1” tall, have short arms and long legs, so need a telescopic steering column. I have sufficient budget for a 997.2 but the prices for later 997.1 versions make me wonder if I would be better off buying a Gen 1 and swallowing some bigger repair costs. The car would be a weekend driver as I live within walking distance of my work and I want to improve my road craft with a manual. The car will live in a garage.

What are the running costs for a late Gen 1 when compared to a Gen 2? I would probably avoid any of the earlier 997 engines that haven’t had the IMS changed or a newer one after the better bearings were factory fitted. The lack of choice for manual gearboxes means I’m not fussy about S models and since 75% of my driving is on our poor rural roads so higher profile tyres would be more comfortable anyway - are non S versions on 18” rims as standard? No convertibles, nor Caymans or Boxsters.

 

[chips]

Hi Brisel
If you considering buying a 997.1 there are issues that could arise with this model. The most costly issue is bore scoring which could set you back around 10k. I would have bore scope and over revs on DME before purchase. Another issue is IMS bearing but this is not a common issue on cars manufactured 2006 and later. Servicing cost (2 years or 20k miles) is around £540 with an independent. I would change the oil and filter every 5000 miles/12 months.
The 997.2 cars don't suffer from the same issues as 997.1 as the engine has been redesigned which eliminates IMS shaft and introduces DFI (Direct Fuel Injection). There have been reported issues with hot and cold seizures due to not allowing the engine to warm up properly before accelerating hard. Some issues with PDK gearbox module failing costly at 10k to replace gearbox (small number of cars). Servicing cost are similar to gen 1. Generally the 997.2 is a better car than 997.1, if you considering buying 997.2 have a bore scope, check DME and check service history for PDK transmission oil changes before purchase.
buying 997.1 will be cheaper than 997.2 but if looking for a manual gearbox then you need to look at 997.1 but remember to have a contingency fund in case you need an engine rebuild.
I own a 3.8 997.1 for last 7 years and experienced bore scoring and had a engine rebuild by Hartec. If I had my time over again I would bought a 997 turbo 1.5 which has the last mezger engine which is better than 997.1 and 997.2 carrea engines.

 

[Brisel]

Thank you. What % of engines have developed the bore scoring issue? From what I have been reading, it’s a low proportion and mostly affects the 3.8 S engines. For the investment level, a professional inspection sounds wise. I’m only interested in a manual transmission.

 

[Motorhead]

Tim,

I can’t give a definitive number for the percentage of Gen1 engines with bore scoring but I suspect that it’s relatively low (single figures?), and there’ll be a lot of owners driving around who are blissfully ignorant of the problem if the car’s not smoking badly and isn’t using too much oil. Hartech will be in a better position to answer your question.

The internet is great for disseminating information but wrt to IMS bearing and bore scoring issues you tend only to hear from a relatively small number of owners who’ve experience problems … very few owners post in praise of engines which haven’t been affected!

I’m broadly in agreement with Richard’s comments, especially those regarding the advantages of the Gen2 DFI engine. The deletion of the IMS has negated that issue, the use of Alusil rather than Lokasil cylinder blocks has addressed the bore-scoring/D-chunking problems of the earlier engine, and the closed-deck construction has produced a stiffer block. Scavenging of the heads/cam boxes has been improved (4 ports vs 2 ports on the Gen1 engine) and unlike on some DFI engines (VAG and Mini?) carbonisation of the inlet ports doesn’t appear to be an issue on these engines.

Having said all that it’s important to remember that early 997.2 cars are more than 13-years old, some with accompanying high mileages, so there’s always going to be a degree of uncertainty and risk when purchasing a high performance car of that age. For that reason I agree with your preference for a manual transmission over the PDK, good though it is. I wouldn’t contemplate taking on any 987.2/997.2 PDK car without the security of having the Porsche Extended Warranty.

All just my tuppence worth of course. []

Good luck with your search!

Jeff

 

[Brisel]

Thanks Jeff. All very useful experience. I never expected a Porsche to be cheap to run. I’ve had some cheap and some expensive performance cars in the past, namely a highly tweaked B5 2.7 RS4 (very expensive when it threw a turbo vane mid-marginal overtake) and a B7 4.2 RS4 (needed a valve clean to decarbonise the head, a common fault along with a serious thirst for high octane petrol).

Many people have recommended a Gen 2 over a Gen 1 for the very reasons you have outlined. I’m more interested in the driving experience than the car. The Audis were great in a straight line but were the epitome of understeer. The AMG is a hooligan in a sensible clothing when provoked yet civilised enough for motorway cruising but not available as a manual. The quest continues…

 

[Chris_ABZ]

Well maintained and inspected is worth more every day; at least to people that drive. I bought a man box, 3.8 with factory fitted X51 pack and PCCBs. The car had 65k and is faultless! I am now using it as a semi-daily driver even in foul weather! She has been pretty enjoyable; ... no air cooled car, but then again she sits outside!

 

[Cromwell]

I’ve just taken the plunge and bought a 2006 C2S, it’s an absolute joy to drive and I intend to use it as a 5 to 10k miles a year daily driver. If the bores should score then I will still have paid less than a 997.2 in the same spec and condition even after a full engine rebuild, so happy to take the risk.


Id be interested to hear about other 997.1s in daily use.

 

[Chris_ABZ]

I DD my '06 C2S. It is fitted w the factory X51 Powerkit. My commute is only a few miles and I attempt to let the car warm up prior to driving. I have noticed that the poor quality roads have taken a toll on the suspension with more knocks in just a few months of driving. I have her booked into an good independent to address these. Thinking of doing a quick two-stage paint correction and then a ppf application on the front; that would mean I could drive it "hard"? over the winter without the worry of front paint damage. The front end has been repainted, most likely to address stone chipping. Current mileage is 66k, I also noted that the PASM seems to have little or no effect in terms of suspension / handling. Presently it is good "enough" so I am just concerned with renewing the parts with worn bushings and eliminating the knocks.

 

[CorkageTime]

I bought a 06 997.1 C4S Cab manual with 65k on it privately last September, which had a non-Hartech rebuild by the previous owner, and the s/n of the engine is one of the later ones that apparently had the IMS update from factory. I don't daily drive it and it lives in a garage, so covering around 3k miles in a year I think. I held out for a manual specifically and this is brilliant, I'm glad I did. I had the funds for a .2 but personally don't like the rear lights, so went with the .1.

I've put new tyres on it (~£900) and had a couple of other jobs done as preventative for around another £1k, but I was planning for this when buying. Now I'll just be doing 12 month services and oil swaps at a local independent and I'm more than happy with that. I'll keep an eye on any future bore scoring symptoms, and if a rebuild needs to happen again at some point then so be it, I'll have the funds to do something about it. Maybe Hartech, or maybe something different with RPM Technik.

 

[Cromwell]

It’s nice to know I’m not the only one using as a DD, I’ve covered 1k miles in first month without any issues.


I'm getting around 22mpg and oil use is zero according to the 3 bar electronic dipstick.

My PASM makes a huge difference, the car goes from a pleasant but firm grand tourer to hard as concrete at the touch of a button, I don’t use the button much on the road but imagine it will be worth using if I ever visit a smooth race track.

The switchable exhaust is fun, love the cracks and burbles at low speeds, bit droney on A roads though.

I need to get out and meet the regional club members now, have a lot to learn about 997s, still getting used to the light front end and almost unstickable rear, it drives like nothing else…

 

[Brisel]

Are there any issues with high mileage cars, beyond normal wear and tear? I have seen a nice 2009 C2S with 100k miles on.

 

[Motorhead]

Tim,

I don’t think there’s a major problem buying any high mileage car - and not just a Porsche - provided it’s been properly serviced and maintained, with documentation in place to support this. In fact there’s an argument to say that a well-used car is better than a "garage queen”!

Even the Gen2 cars are now 13-years old and many will be approaching the 100,000 mile mark. Parts do wear out, and it’s important to ensure that they’re replaced at the appropriate time. Also, modern cars are complex electronically and modules can fail with time. Purchasing a high-mileage car will always present a risk but if you’re happy with that then there’s no reason not to go ahead.

As always buy on service and maintenance history and the car’s general condition, and it’s well worth getting a PPI done by a reputable specialist for added confidence. If any issues are highlighted you can either ask the seller to rectify them or negotiate a lower purchase price.

Good luck!

Jeff

 

[gordonbs]

I’ve recently sold my 88 911 Carrera Sport with 68k miles, which is low and with full Porsche SH. The car was exceptional. But the new owner can’t just take my word for it, and had an inspection carried out by Bob at Porsche Independent Inspections, which was very thorough (spent 3 hours with the car and cost around £500. If you are buying privately or from an independent dealer and spending a lot of money, it’s probably worth it.
I also have a late 2005 997.1 Carrera S with 42k miles and I have been very pleased with it. More performance than I will ever need. I have a manual, which I enjoy driving as the Tiptronic doesn’t have a great reputation. As others have said, the service history is important and for me, the right spec, as there are a lot of options on these models.
I hope this helps.

 

[Brisel]

Thank you both. I was just checking but was hoping for a lack of "the [name of major component] lets go at 120,000 miles, so budget £10k for a rebuild!”