Menu toggle

997 Tuning Experts

Hendrik

New member
I have a question regarding the level of tuning on our cars.
Like Chris at Center Gravity who gets the car set up just right, do we have an expert who will do the same for the engine?
Is the factory settings or OPC tuning as good as it could be? I dont want to "fiddle" with the engine, but wonders if it is optimally tuned?? Is dyno tuning done as a rule by OPC's?
 
Remap your engine and your Porsche Warranty will be voided.

Tom is your best resource for tuning Carreras.

Tuning Turbos then I know a thing or two - although not really for gen2 Turbos as this is a whole new engine.
 

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

The best remap you can get for the Gen 2 C4S is to buy a Gen 2 Turbo (S), Hendrick![:D]

I love this...so true. LOL.

My question was probably misinterpreted.
I am more after an answer relating to getting the best tuning of the C4S engine compared with only a so so tuning from the factory. The geometry of the factory was ok, but Chris got it better.
I am sure my C4S is ok, but is there a person that can optimise all the settings (not remapping) or is what we get from the factory or OPC sufficient?
 
ORIGINAL: Hendrik

I am sure my C4S is ok, but is there a person that can optimise all the settings (not remapping) or is what we get from the factory or OPC sufficient?
Not quite sure what "settings" you have in mind, Hendrik. To alter the throttle response, optimise timing for high octane fuel etc is effectively a remap of the ECU and Revo Technik are the boys for that. You can improve on the intake/exhaust too which will give you a few more bhps but as Alex pointed out any of this will affect the warranty - and not in a good way either! The powerkit option would take yours up to 408 but is a pricey option - but is clearly getting more from the same engine. The factory set up will be mildly conservative as a matter of course but I think you will have difficulty making any significant improvement without some serious outlay.
The DFi engine in the standard, normally aspirated cars is producing 100bhp/litre which always used to be the benchmark for a pretty well sorted engine.
 
I read some info on the net and all they say is that our cars engines are too advanced to do an exhaust gas analysis for better tuning values etc. Our cars do it automatically. Nothing to improve on. So that probably answers my question...nothing to be done, its perfect all the time with the best fuel air mix in the cylinders and same with the timing. Years ago one could find the optimum timing setting while the engine is under load and running at speed on the dyno rollers.
Remapping and chipping is another issue and will affect warranty - so not to be pursued.
 

ORIGINAL: Hendrik

I read some info on the net and all they say is that our cars engines are too advanced to do an exhaust gas analysis for better tuning values etc. Our cars do it automatically. Nothing to improve on. So that probably answers my question...nothing to be done, its perfect all the time with the best fuel air mix in the cylinders and same with the timing. Years ago one could find the optimum timing setting while the engine is under load and running at speed on the dyno rollers.
Remapping and chipping is another issue and will affect warranty - so not to be pursued.


Sorry mate - there is a word starts with B ends in S. I haven't messed with my engine per se. I have remapped the engine software , improved the exhaust and air intakes and gained approx 60hp on a dyno and about 50lb of torque. More importantly the peak torque comes much lower down and the curve is wider so it significantly improves drivability.

The bad news as well is Prosches; quoted power figures are for the engine with no othe car components on a dyno table in a large cool room with all the air it would ever need forced into it. Fabspeed and other tuners regularly DYNO AVERAGE 339BHP FOR A Gen CS with a conseravtive DIN standard corrction.

When the car is not moving at high speed it doesn't get enough air in it to generate full power. The air gets hot from the engine bay, the exhaust system doesn't remove the gasses quickly enough and things like driveshafts, power steering, aircon create losses

So while you might get near 380hp under cetain conditions it'll be at or near vmax on an autobahn on a cold winter/spring morning (denser air).

On a UK road at 70mph=ish revving the nuts of ti in 3rd on a warm summers day, sorry you'll be well down on power

The engnes themselves are fantastic - as per Alan's point very conservatively set up. Revo tecknic or DMS or even a Cargraphic bespoke remap will optimise engine smoothness, responsiveness and in gear performance for European fuels 95/99 RON - bear in mind the std software has to cope with 91 RON in south america with bits of sugar beet floating in it. It Also sacrifices some fule efficiency for more power and higher carbon emissions (evil). So on a long run with cruise on at medium speed on motoway the leaner burn gets better fuel consumption but use the rigth foot and flex it the extra fuel supplied more freely and more efficient burn means worse fuel consumption.

Once you've had an engine remap you won't want to go back it feels so much more together and if properly done a) its full revesable 2) Yes it invalidates you warranty in the Uk but DMS and Revo work with the Studgart engineers to define the parameters - so for DMS and REVO i shouldn't effect reliabaility of the engine - Clutches, breaks and tryes are a different keltte of fish. To quote an ex porsche race engneeer after remapping my car - if the enigne goes, it was going to go anyway. 3) it eliminate flat spots in the engines respsone you won't know you have until the remap is in place. Revo do a 5 hour try before you buy.

Air intakes - heavy, designed to be durable wth idiots handling them and big heavy safe but ineffcient filtes. Too small and heavilly restricts air into the engine - a big step up is to put a propr air intake and high performance filter - again more responsive throttle, more acceleration, worse fuel consumption (you get more air in quicker you can burn more fuel and get more power). K&N or Fabspeed make great ones. EVOMS is also jolly good.

Exhausts - Miltek or Cargraphic probably the most popular and 2 of the best - but there are others that are very good. I have the Miltek - much lower back pressure improves troque and low down grunt in combination witht he remap. Even better with the intake, filter and remap. its also at least 12kgs lighter thant he std exahust ( the intakes are lighter, the upgrades OEM brakes are lighter, the sports seats ar elighter) so a wedge of weigth saved as well (not enoguh to compensate tfor the difference between my weight and the average driver I am afraid.........[:eek:]

Now I have the old Gen 1 heap so does he DFI thing make these changes redundant - No, if anything the greater degree of control you can have over parameters allows tuners to do more interesting stuff.

As always its not a free luch there are some compromises - the lack of warranty being a big one (there are alternatives offered by some specialists, warranty direct etc) The gains per element are small - in reality you want to aim to improve drivability (in gear perforamnce) and torque for on road performance. High power figures at the top end of the rev range really only tell on the race track (one of the compromises is choosing where you get your extra grunt).

And as always you pay for what you get - most of the upgrdes are not cheap, as once you get apprciable perforamnce gains you have to upgrade the brakes, handling (dampers or sway bars) etc to keep the car a balanced package.

So I refer you to Alan's other comment - a cheap upgrade is to buy a second hand turbo (much easier to tune and get big gaisn as well). The point being once you start tinkering its had to stop.

Hope this helps your thinking........

Come to the dark side my young padawan.................

C333FE51068847B783745E3872A3C7B3.gif
 
Not very I would say Jonathan. However, they may perform a reflash of the ECU, if there had been a software update, while they have it in which would wipe off your expensive remap, although most companies would re-install FOC if that were the case - I know Revo would.
 

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

Not very I would say Jonathan.  However, they may perform a reflash of the ECU, if there had been a software update, while they have it in which would wipe off your expensive remap, although most companies would re-install FOC if that were the case - I know Revo would.


If its a Revo or DMS very difficult to spot as they stay within Porsche parameters so there are no alerts that Can be generated by custom maps. Also Revo have a dongle to el you store and change maps -

There are ways of getting around that, your car stores several maps at once that interact - the flash upgrade is to the base map. A little dongle from Revo allows you to rest to standard get the flash upgrade and then rest to overlay your revo settings after the visit to the garage. Costs a little extra but useful. Can also be used as extra security turning the car "off" so without a rest it wont start.

 
Thank you Tom.
That is a very thorough report on possible enhancements.
I take your point on Alan's comment - go for the Turbos.
As my car is new, I wont be doing anything that could jeopardise the warranty.
There seems to be a whole side industry out there to improve the factory tuned and fitted car.
 
Hendrik

No problem mate.

I kept mine fairly stock till ti was a couple of years old and the warranty was out. I did a calculation on the then £1400/year and worked out I needed 3 rms' a year to cover this. Or of course 1 engine (gulp).

After that point i tinkered.

Te best tip I got is make charges one at at time and enjoy each one for a while.

So enjoy your new geometry probably the best value upgrade you can make.[:D]
 

Thing is who is actually offering a remap of the DFI engine, Revo don't seem to list it on their website as they only have figures for the gen 1 engine.
 
http://www.tech9.ms/performance/911/gen-ii-997/gen-ii-997-carrera-engine.htm

I thought Revo had brought out a remap but obviously not - or the website is out of date!
 
Little late with my input on this one but I'd not recommend any re-map unless you are also fitting performance upgrades as there's very little to be gained. The standard factory maps are near perfect for regular driving with the standard car, a little rich at the top end perhaps but you'll have to be regularly driving at over 100mph for this to become a nuisance, and who does that?

From my experience Tom's comments are spot on, power will be miles away from the published figues with the standard set up and only after extensive performance upgrades and a dyno developed re-map will you better these figures. When my C2S first went on the dyno with the stock set up it was producing less than 310whp and after much outlay and many hours on the dyno it's now up to 367whp.

The performance upgrades were by Tech9 and the dyno re-map by Chipwizards both being vastly experienced with all things Porsche.

So in summary I'd say to enjoy the new Carrera through the warranty period without mods, and then rather than shell out £30k on top of the trade in value for a new car, spend £5k-£6k on performance upgrades and enjoy the car all over again.
 

Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members

Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions.

Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible.

When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide.

Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned.

Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times.

Back
Top