9ff 944tt
- Thread starter 944Turbo
- Start date
Wow.
I knew they did the current range, but I had no idea they dabbled in previous models.
Do you have any more info? [8D]
I knew they did the current range, but I had no idea they dabbled in previous models.
Do you have any more info? [8D]
Glad you asked [
] I didn't know either a rennlister spotted it and took a pic so I contacted 9ff to find out more. I have seen in the US some cars running the 16v engine vertically but only with a large single turbo. two smaller ones makes a lot more sense. I hope when it is finished it will appear on the 9ff website. "We are finishing the car in the moment on the first dyno run we had around 370 HP. The standard gearbox has to changed so far that the connecting points have to be turned because the position the engine it self changed. The costs for a modification like this would be around 17.000,00 to 20.000,00 euro including installation and exhaust and full services of all gaskets. Let me know when you need more info.
The boost is around 0.9 bar for the 370HP. I am very sure that the turbo lag is much smaller than with a single turbo. I got to say that the car drives very clean with an very nice boost curve."
The pictures all came from 9ff with the exception of the front pic showing the bonnet so I guess they may have a solution for that soon. ( I actually quite like the hole but it wont be very practical in the winter)
Tony
ORIGINAL: 944Turbo
Glad you asked [
I didn't realise you were still posting [
]Not cheap is it? [&:]
Nice though [8D]
Not cheap but I would expect top quality engineering. I am not sure what parts are included either, and what else will need sourcing on top. Nice to know it has been done though, and other items may filter through. I seem to remember 9ff started as gearbox specialists and as my gearbox is getting tired (with a mere 350bhp and 179K miles) this interests me too, if they hadn't built it I wouldn't even of considered them.
Tony
Tony
eastendr
New member
This whole idea of dual turbos takes me back 15 years to when a number of tuning companies tried similar on the Sierra Cosworth engines. Both dual (small) turbos and staged 'sequential' setups developed and built.
Ultimately none survived as the cost and complication killed them off. They didn't give any improved performance. Rather they produced a whole load of new problems such as engine bay space for all the additional pipework, problems balancing (dual parallel turbos), and the inordinate amount of time to get suitable spec turbos to work in tandom, only to find a cam change for example would need a re-think of the turbo's internals. Excessive under bonnet temperatures from the twin turbos is also a major problem and may well need a redesigned cooling system for oil, water and air management.
Tilting the engine away from it's 15 degrees will also raise the centre of gravity ... Is there sufficient room for the 9FF conversion on a RHD car (steering mechanicals in the way ?) etc.
Call me a dinosaur, but unless they can get a phenominal amount of torque improvement, reliable top end power and drivability, they won't shift many. And it's seriously expensive compared with what you could achieve by other methods.
It's obviously designed as a boost monster as they're using low compression pistons and relying on a lot of boost being available to make it drivable. Using a supercharger would be much better in that respect, but would loose the top end power as it will need to rev with the 16V head to make decent top end power.
It's all compromise. I still believe that the standard configuration can be made very acceptable with the right development.
Rick.
Ultimately none survived as the cost and complication killed them off. They didn't give any improved performance. Rather they produced a whole load of new problems such as engine bay space for all the additional pipework, problems balancing (dual parallel turbos), and the inordinate amount of time to get suitable spec turbos to work in tandom, only to find a cam change for example would need a re-think of the turbo's internals. Excessive under bonnet temperatures from the twin turbos is also a major problem and may well need a redesigned cooling system for oil, water and air management.
Tilting the engine away from it's 15 degrees will also raise the centre of gravity ... Is there sufficient room for the 9FF conversion on a RHD car (steering mechanicals in the way ?) etc.
Call me a dinosaur, but unless they can get a phenominal amount of torque improvement, reliable top end power and drivability, they won't shift many. And it's seriously expensive compared with what you could achieve by other methods.
It's obviously designed as a boost monster as they're using low compression pistons and relying on a lot of boost being available to make it drivable. Using a supercharger would be much better in that respect, but would loose the top end power as it will need to rev with the 16V head to make decent top end power.
It's all compromise. I still believe that the standard configuration can be made very acceptable with the right development.
Rick.
Yes many valid points, except 9ff do some pretty good stuff with 2 turbos on a 996 (admittedly packaging makes sense then) so I am interested to see what they can do when they turn the boost up. Small things like the turbo inlets are different from the norm . I am guessing it is dry sumped (though dont know for sure) as well. Its also the first time I have seen your style of wheels with polishd rims.
There is lots of stuff going on for a 15 to 21 year old car []
Tony
There is lots of stuff going on for a 15 to 21 year old car [
]Tony
sawood12
New member
The whole project looks the business, i've often wondered about the possibility of a twin turbo setup - far more efficient. I'm a sucker for things like this - why fit one turbo when you can squeeze in two. I'm sure that the benefits of such an arrangement goes far beyond crude headline power and torque figures. I bet the it gives a lag free wide, smooth and progressive powerband - maybe not as much out and out power as some existing 944 projects but far more usable. We can only assume that the clever chaps at 9FF will overcome the technical problems and make it work. However I think the cost of the conversion will mean that this will likely be a one off demonstrators showing off the talents of the people at 9FF. Assuming the cost of such a conversion is likely to be £10-£15k I can't see many people going for it. I'm not usually one for coloured whees but they look the business on this car.
I suppose the lower compression pistons are because they've based the project on a 16v S2 engine.
I suppose the lower compression pistons are because they've based the project on a 16v S2 engine.
They are just the 18" 5-spoke carrera wheels off the 996/Boxster
Trust a Boxster owner to lay claim to something like that. [
]While it is encouraging to see a reputable tuner doing work on a 944 as this may raise peoples perception (and the potential resale value) of the '44, I agree with Ricks view. Why?
I wait with baited breath to see how Tony is going to sell the idea of spending 20,000 Euros to Mrs 944Turbo; particularly for a power hike of 20 bhp on what he has currently. [
]I appreciate that the more power you get the more additional power costs but that is pretty ridiculous.
Diver944
Active member
It's encouraging that a well respected tuner like 9ff is doing something with our cars, and 370bhp is a great figure at only .9 bar of boost.
They really need to sort out the bonnet situation though if they want to sell any, and is it just me but those turbos look pretty big anyways?
They really need to sort out the bonnet situation though if they want to sell any, and is it just me but those turbos look pretty big anyways?
Daft question perhaps but are they running one turbo on two cylinders twice?
While I can see how a twin turbo would work on the Porsche 6 cylinder boxer engine - one turbo for three cylinders - I would have thought one turbo on two cylinders so close to the outlet would give a pulsed exhaust gas delivery which can't be ideal?
While I can see how a twin turbo would work on the Porsche 6 cylinder boxer engine - one turbo for three cylinders - I would have thought one turbo on two cylinders so close to the outlet would give a pulsed exhaust gas delivery which can't be ideal?
eastendr
New member
The normally aspirated cars run a much higher compression ratio than turbos.
The more boost you want to run, the lower compression you have to go to beat detonation. Hence my assumption they're relying on a lot of boost available all the way through.
The other way is to keep a relatively high compression, but run a lower boost level, but rely on increased VE.
Rick.
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