Advice - MoT failure 2.5 Lux

[delays]

My dad has been in touch saying that due to a recent MoT failure on his '86 944, he's throwing in the towel with the bank account crying foul. The failure was due to rust around the rear suspension mounts, and whilst in there, it would be prudent to tackle one of the sills"¦ the list went on and on.

Now, he's all for scrapping it since it's a "lowly" 2.5 Lux, the logic being that if it was an S2 or a Turbo someone might want to convert it to track-spec or restore it. My argument is that as a good car, recently fettled by Glasgow OPC with a strong history, running and driving - i.e. a million miles away from the usual "sheds" you see rolled out as barn finds - there must be some interest.

And so, what do you guys reckon?

 

[Lowtimer]

Not sure what the question is. Terminal corrosion is the usual killer of Porsches (aside from accident damage). I assume he does not want to pay to have it repaired properly and professionally, which I would expect to be a hefty four-figure job. I also assume he doesn't have the facilities or inclination to break it for spares himself and recoup the maximum capital that way.

His options are a) therefore to sell it as is: basically as a breaker. or as a spares car or project for someone with a high level of enthusiasm for serious structural body restoration, or b) to weigh it in. Of the two, a) is the better option.

 

[dunc]

Don't think it's what you want to hear but given the choice myself I'd cut my losses and sell for spares/repairs or scrappy.

Dunc.

 

[delays]

Apologies for being vague with the question, and essentially there isn't a specific question - just gathering opinions on the best next step for the car, and venting a little at the frustration of trying to keep these cars on the road.

Current replies seem to confirm the viewpoint that scrapping it is the best course here - and whilst it's painful to hear, I agree there is a line when it becomes untenable to keep shelling out for repairs.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

To get a professional restoration and respray will be, as said, thousands. Our problem is that the costs aren't that different on a Lux with 200K miles, a rare Turbo S with 20K miles on it, or a 911 from the period. The difference is the value when you're finished, and sadly a Lux won't repay you.

If the car is otherwise mint, and a long-term keeper, then it's perhaps worth the cost as it's spread over many years.

It could easily be bodged up for next to nothing by someone with the DIY skills though, and probably go on for years.

 

[Lowtimer]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

It could easily be bodged up for next to nothing by someone with the DIY skills though, and probably go on for years.

Hmm. Maybe, maybe not. A car can go on for a long time with a bodged up sill, (enev tough it really shouldn't). But if it's really got into the rear suspension pick-up points then that's not susceptible to a bodge. It has to be done properly or not at all.

 

[colin944]

Send me a pm. I'm in Ayr and have done sills etc on my own S2. I'll have a look and tell you if it is as bad as you think or if we can fix it.

 

[Elliot]

I am looking for an 86 944 for a project I am doing if you choose to sell it.

cheers Elliot 07514 944964

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Hmm. Maybe, maybe not. A car can go on for a long time with a bodged up sill, (enev tough it really shouldn't). But if it's really got into the rear suspension pick-up points then that's not susceptible to a bodge. It has to be done properly or not at all.

I speak as someone with absolutely no welding knowledge at all! [&:]

I do see a lot of old cars with pretty ropey welding as a bodge solution to get them through an MOT. Can't see why a 944 couldn't be welded up to give it a year or two in the same way as an old Ford?

There are also plenty of classics that rust like mad, yet they seem to be blocking the roads up despite the rust. My recent holiday to Cornwall was slowed down a lot by the large numbers of old VWs gaily driving at 25mph everywhere.....

Serious question from a completely novice point of view. Why is it possible to keep MGs, VW Beetles or Campers, Alfas etc. on the road, yet rust in one area of a 944 seems terminal? Or at least very expensive to fix. It's a car that is more solidly built than anything from that period, yet one corner seems to be impossible to repair economically?

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
Serious question from a completely novice point of view. Why is it possible to keep MGs, VW Beetles or Campers, Alfas etc. on the road, yet rust in one area of a 944 seems terminal? Or at least very expensive to fix. It's a car that is more solidly built than anything from that period, yet one corner seems to be impossible to repair economically?

Various reasons. Replacement body parts for MG's and others are very cheap to buy, hence the repair is much cheaper than you'd expect if you are used to 944 prices. They also may well not be as prone to rusting in structural places; some parts of a car can rust to bu99ery without affecting the strength (and hence safety) of it. You'll also find that the MG's and Beetles you are seeing now are the ones that were well looked after in the first place - those models of car have been through the purging of the ropey ones that we are currently seeing with the 944's.


Oli.

 

[Monkeythree]

Paul I think the problem with the 944 compared to other cars is simply the design of the rear suspension mounting arrangement. IMHO there are two areas where the costs could mount up if you weren't doing it yourself:

1) The "main" mounts of the rear beam (the ones at the ends of the sills) are substantial steel pressings. 3mm thick i would say. So they are going to remain solid even after several years of exposure to the rusting process. But the steel around these mounts is regular 1.2mm and can rust through relatively easily. (I suspect this is the issue in the OP's case). Due to the awkward shapes and the presence of the rear beam, the only way to really get to it is by removing the rear beam. So that means many hours of labour getting the exhaust off, all the rusty bolts undone, driveshafts off, brakes disconnected etc etc. And it's all got to be put back together again at the end.......

2) The top mounts for the rear dampers are susceptible but again, very difficult to get to to effect a repair. You really need to take the fuel tank out, that means dropping the transaxle.......you can see how it all adds up.

Bodging a sill is one thing. Satisifying the MOT man that the structural elements are sound is a different matter.

 

[JM1962]

ORIGINAL: delays

The failure was due to rust around the rear suspension mounts, and whilst in there, it would be prudent to tackle one of the sills"¦ the list went on and on.

My argument is that as a good car, recently fettled by Glasgow OPC with a strong history, running and driving - i.e. a million miles away from the usual "sheds" you see rolled out as barn finds - there must be some interest.

And so, what do you guys reckon?

With the things you have described plus "a list that goes on and on" it doesn't sound a million miles from the "usual sheds" that you mention to me. It sounds like a money pit that will only be worth around £3k tops when everythings fixed. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I reckon you should cut your losses unless you're really attached to it.

 

[delays]

ORIGINAL: JM1962

ORIGINAL: delays

The failure was due to rust around the rear suspension mounts, and whilst in there, it would be prudent to tackle one of the sills"¦ the list went on and on.

My argument is that as a good car, recently fettled by Glasgow OPC with a strong history, running and driving - i.e. a million miles away from the usual "sheds" you see rolled out as barn finds - there must be some interest.

And so, what do you guys reckon?

With the things you have described plus "a list that goes on and on" it doesn't sound a million miles from the "usual sheds" that you mention to me. It sounds like a money pit that will only be worth around £3k tops when everythings fixed. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I reckon you should cut your losses unless you're really attached to it.

See, this is what I mean by "usual sheds", alarmingly sold for £411 on eBay:

The car in question is a well-maintained car in original spec. Age and use seems to be catching up with it, which is the tragedy. After some chat with members on here, we're looking in to advertising it as a project on the usual suspects - and do as suggested, cut the losses and look for a 944 S2, Turbo, 968 or 911.

 

[JM1962]

I see what you mean, that is definitely a shed.

 

[Bertroex]

It is a difficult one. I inherited a 924S which was an MOT failure, due to sills, a front wing, and various bits and pieces. But was a 1 owner, low miles, OPC maintained car that simply was too low in economic value to be properly restored. I brought it to my tame bodyshop man, and he turned for a few hundred pounds into my daily driver, doing 20000 + miles a year. Obviously I have a yearly maintenance budget and every year the front spoiler needs doing (wild life in rural areas!) and bits and pieces, but overall, the car is costing me 38 pence a mile all in.

So, please don't scrap it. If you are willing to contact me, I'm happy to talk, lets perhaps see some photographs and perhaps it can be saved by a stubborn, slightly stupid Porsche driver who is passionate as hell!

Best regards,

Bert

 

[delays]

Bert, I've just posted up an ad on Gumtree for the car, which can be viewed here:

http://tinyurl.com/oh89d6t

There are a few photos there showing it off, with history summarised as well.

Lovely looking car and it's a shame to wave it goodbye - but hard economics are kicking in.

 

[delays]

Happy ending to the story - the car was sold earlier this week to a fellow Porsche fan who aims to take the project on with his son. Sad to see it go, but glad it lives to fight another day.