Advice needed on a 993 TT asap

[Guest]

Hello all, I am new to the forum but have been searching for info and lurking for a while.

My name is David from the midlands, I am after my first porsche a 993 TT (been searching for a while). I am close to doing a deal and would really appreciate some quick advice.

I have found a 11 year old one that needs a new clutch and have been qouted £2700 including a flywheel by a main dealer and a similar price by PCT. Is this the going rate or can I get it a lot cheaper else where? any price examples would be a great help.

The car has bubling to the front window (Paint under sill) but most 993 cars I have seen have, is this a common problem?

Interior needs recolonising , two front seats, gatter and handbrake? its done 80 odd thousand miles and is 11 years old, is this common or a little abused? any idear how much it would cost to get them recolinised?

It has an oil leak over the exhaust, from the intercoller pipes I believe, Porsche garage said over a year ago to leave it as its common. Its still no worse now but is this something to worry about?

The car is a nice honest example but needs TLC and the clutch is a big downer, I have talked to a guy that sounds like he has a much nicer example but is slightly over my budget ( but same year and mileage) Do you think it would be worth saving up a little more or are these probs that common I will have to deal with them one day even on a nicer example?

Thank you in advance , David.

 

[Guest]

And the front lights had fog in them, I imagine this is an easy fix? Thanks again. David.

 

[FLAT-SIXY]

Sounds like a bit of a turkey mate. If oil is leaking from the pressure hose eventualy its gona blow off. mine had a bad hose and cost me £600 pounds to put right. My cam covers were leaking on both sides with oil driping onto the exhausts and this cost me £2300. I dont wana put a downer on your find mate, but I wouldent take on any turbo with an oil leak, why should you take on someone elses neglect, I did and i paid top money for it. Just get it checked out by a proffesional mechanically, all the cosmetic stuff is less of a bother, just dont let someone asume where the oil is leaking from and then taking there word for it. I know what its like though, you get an eye full of turbo and nothing else matters. Happy hunting and good luck.

 

[Geoff Turpin]

David
If the car is from a private seller have you had it inspected? If you have and the price reflects your concerns over its condition then it could be a good deal. If your not comfortable with it walk away. However I would be worried about any oil leaks. My '95 turbo with 70k miles hasn't encountered any similar problems fortunately.

Regards

Geoff

 

[phil993]

Hi David
Just so happens I just had:
clutch cover 304.42
clutch plate 103.52
cluthch bearing 92.80
clutch bolts 5.13
O ring 8.49
(I also needed slave cylinder 494.52 and pressure sphere 90.43 which you probably don't neeed but if you do its a good time to do as they are situated above the gearbox so need engine drop)
I dont know the time cost just for clutch as I had other stuff done at same time but I guess 6 hours ?? - my guys charge me £68 per hour. Not sure cost of flywheel as I didn't need to renew mine. Bearing in mind the above I can't see why you should pay anything like £2.5k.

I also had surface corrosion around base of screen repaired. I had top job which included removeing screen and painting roof to blend it all in and I paid £450 inc paint and materials.

IMHO its reasonable to expect this stuff on an 11 year old car and at least you know what you are getting in to.

I don't think an oil leak rfrom the pipework is too much concern.

Although I seem to spend about £3k per year on service, including a heavy tyre cost (trackdays) this is more than compensated by the fact I can get £5k more for my car than I paid May 2004.

Go for it mate......

Phil

 

[Guest]

The price definatley reflects the condition, but saying all this it is a very original car (paint work , service history etc).

I have had a motor trader friend give it a very good once over and he rates it as very nice with just tlc needed. He has very little knowledge of Porsches though but has been in the trade 30 odd years.

It did have a full Porsche inspection just over a year ago and came out pretty good.

Just out of interest I drove 130 miles to see a RED LHD that was not as described and can only be described as made up ( a bit like that Peugeot advert) ( out of what I do not know) . Email me if your going to look at one that sounds like this.

I was qouted:
Clutch £103.52 + Main plate £310.18 + Bearings £88.38 (fly wheel if needed £786.53) + 10-12 hrs labour £100 an hour + £120 worth of oil + VAT
This was just one qoute others were similar.

I am comftable with the car, just need that push in the right direction ( whichever way that is)

One plus point Roger Clarks Old Head Mechanic is suppossed to work 15 miles away from my home and is very competative on fixing Porsches ( but havent managed to talk to him yet).

I must admit I was blown away with the performance, boy dont they go............ More than I thought they would.

Thanks for all the info so far,

Looks like a sleepless night for me tonight.

 

[trevorw]

David,

A few more words of caution. I had my 993 T4 for nearly 5 years - an absolute joy both on road and track, but :

oil leaks - if it really is from the cam covers, it will not get better and as a previous post has indicated - it will be expensive. This is because the turbos, their plumbing and heatshields have to be removed to fix. On an 11 year old car this will result in the oil feeds to the turbos disintegrating, resulting in even more labour and cost.
Check very carefully for ANY blue smoke on startup from hot or cold. Everyone says that asmall amount of smoke is OK, but if it is anything more than an initial puff, then oil is either getting into the inlet/exhaust plumbing through worn turbo bearings, piston ring or valve guide wear - either way - horrendously expensive.
You do not quote a mileage, but also check on when the turbo intercooler hoses were last replaced. They degrade rapidly at the turbo end and become porous over time. The same is true of all the HT leads, so any hint of a misfire and they need replacing.
If its still on its original Monroe (cheap and nasty) dampers then they will almost certainly be past it.
Budget for a set of rear tyres every 5k miles at the most.
A wonderful car - but it will cost money to keep that way.

 

[Gordon Attar]

David
Before purchasing go to and read http://993tt.com/ also for future reference lurk in Rennlist.com (and possibly Pistonheads not so tech'y) as they will be able to answer anything.

Has the car a full service history and invoices to support, condition is everything and make sure that you have the car inspected by a specialist who looks after them for a living, a lot of OPC technicians will not have worked on them. My specialist is Northways(nr Reading 60 miles away) he owns a 993TT and looks after half a dozen more and costs £45/hour.

Ref seat wear that is very odd mine has done 65k and no sign of any and I have a friend with 70k + with no signs of wear could cost abot £800, could be a sign of higher mileage check history

Clutch you can get done for less than a £1000 in most places and they probably use one every 40k miles, check back if its on its 3rd, it could be down to abuse.

Front Scuttle is dead common known fault on 993's mine has it.

The big scary one is " oil weeping out of the Intercooler", this could mean new/recon Turbo's (£2k), its fairly common to find a little oil but not enough for weeping, you will at least need new pipes. If you are lucky its just been serviced and fitted with the faulty Mahle filter. To check pull off your inlet boots to your turbochargers and inspect for oil.. You can also look to see if your bearing housings are wet with oil.(bad signs) this will also be good one to question/check your inspector out on.
Oil leaks are not common in 993's the only one and I have it is a slight weep from the cam covers which is a 2 hour job(Northways) 8-10 hours OPC. In view of this I would be very worried about the Porsche Garage that inspected it and its report.

Ref the car out of budget, add the cost of repairs to the car you are looking at to its purchase price, is it more expensive still!?

The car you are looking at should be c£35/6k if RHD and as low £27/8k for LHD, there are a few, at dealers available for £39995 available, Northways have one coming in soon. I know of a vgc LHD 98R with 70k available for £35k.

Be careful and good luck and I bet the first drive was 'scary' and its even more scary how quick you get used to it.

 

[Gordon Attar]

Read also
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=226417&highlight=oil+intercooler

 

[Guest]

Thanks once again for the advice, some great information there for me.

Its done 70k miles it will be needing its 3rd clutch (needs it so bad I doubt it will last a week) My friend took it up to 4k rpm and let it go in 4th gear and the clutch came all the way out with no bite. It has a FSH all main dealer untill last year.

I made up my mind and made an offer but 1k short he has turned it down and I will not go any further. We will se what happens from here..

Thanks for the offer of the LHD but I really want a RHD unless its a really cheap LHD.

Sniper has advertised a nice one for £38k, unfortunatley a bit out of my reach but the one I am looking at is catching it up with repairs.

Thank you to every one again, its so nice to have some advice when its needed.

Gordon, the scariest part was being driven in the LHD red one with the young driver slamming his brakes on at over a 100 behind every car he caught up with. I was also cramped in the back, very very scary.... (not the car I am interested in)

 

[Gordon Attar]

Dave
Good luck in the hunting. He may come down, what did he say about the possible Turbo issue!?

With it having full OPC until last year that is good history if complete , how many owners and when was the last clutch change.
Its a bit strange to have the scuttle problem if all main dealer history as it should have been done under warranty!?
I'm presuming you are £3k or so under the £38k from your comments.
If you are still unsure and wavering about the car and the extra £1k get it inspected by a specialist(weltmeister! at Silverstone ask for Andy) re the oil weep and agree a price based on known faults ie clutch, paint,seats before hand and anything major found comes out of the agreed price ie to fix the oil problem. Or show the vendor the list afterwards and negotiate with what will be a bigger list of known faults

 

[Guest]

Hi Gordon,

At this moment we are both holding out for our prices, negotiations have stopped for now but I imagine over the weekend he might see my points. He doesnt care about cosmetics and even says the clutch is not a problem so its a hard battle.

History is very good, all mots, all OPC history until recent but I would be the 9th owner (that was a big blow to me) Nearly a new owner every year.

I will keep saving in hope to get one within the next month.

Prices you guessed are pretty much spot on, my budget is £35k, but I can go more if the right car comes along. Condition / colour etc... But it is a lot of money for me (all I have infact) Thats why a few month trouble free motoring would be nice to start off with.

Thanks for all the handy tips and advice.

I hope I will be posting with a car beneath my name soon, I am borrowing a 4.0ltr Jeep at the moment and its costing me a lot to just see the cars in the first place (15mpg).

 

[phil993]

David - have you tried a carrera 2? I know it's not a response you probably want but you can buy a mint low mileage c2 in your budget and they are great to drive. They obviously don't have the addictive torque but they have great feel and in my opinion are more fun if you are into track days with a set of pagid blues and pilot cup tyres which you could also buy within your budget. I loved mine.......

 

[dparslow]

ORIGINAL: phil993

David - have you tried a carrera 2? I know it's not a response you probably want but you can buy a mint low mileage c2 in your budget and they are great to drive. They obviously don't have the addictive torque but they have great feel and in my opinion are more fun if you are into track days with a set of pagid blues and pilot cup tyres which you could also buy within your budget. I loved mine.......

I would strongly agree with phil993, I have just sold my 993C2, it was much more involving to drive than the turbo. With your budget any turbo is a going to be a potential nightmare, even the lower mileage ones have their problems occaisionally. I looked at 6 before I bought mine, both private sales and at specialists, the better cars were the private ones for sale. Some of the dealer cars were overpriced by at least £5k for the condition the cars were presented in, IMHO.

Mine has only done 24k but I still allowed a healthy emergency fund to sort out any problems that may occur after purchase. I had a few minor oil leaks to sort, which turned out to be an easy diy fix, oil return pipe unions on the turbos needed tightening up and a power steering pipe union also. They all looked a lot worse than they actually were, most 993`s have evidence of minor oil seepage around the cam cover gaskets and timing chain covers. Unless its constantly dripping its not a major problem and independant specialists will tell you that. I`ve also changed the intercooler hoses due to them going soft where they fit onto the turbos. Even with low mileage its still an 8 year old car so the original shockers will be past their best and I will fit new ones later in the year. When I changed them on my C2 it really did drive so much better, I only wished I had changed them sooner and been able to drive it a few years and more miles on them.

Better to buy a good C2 rather than a dodgy turbo!

 

[Gordon Attar]

Dave
There is something not right with the wear and tear and 9 owners, thats just to many especially as once you own one its very hard to give it up unless you have a reason. I would track and trace a few owners and ring them names and addresses etc on invoices, take your time if he comes down in price.

 

[Guest]

Dave / Phil and Gordon,

Thank you alot for your input, 6 months ago when I was after a Ferrari ( before I fell in love with Porsche) all I got was stupid comments when I asked for advice on the Ferrari forum. This site has been great, anyway after getting the daft Ferraris out of my head, looking very hard for a 993 C2, then going for a 996 which thankfully I went in one before I parted with my cash at an auction house ( great car just too refined, just what I wanted to get away from)

I wet back to a C2 but my budget just kept moving on until it was near Turbo money, after I saw a few I felt it had to be a Turbo. I found the speed of my old Audi S4 boring so when I found the delights of a Turbo I now know its the only car for me. IMHO is probabley the best looking car in the world.

But I am sick to death of looking at cars, prestige cars are always a 100 miles away from home. I have made a few offers and really hope to have one by a few weeks time. I have now found out that Roger Clarks ex mech is very reasonable on Porsche and was just fitting a clutch on a 993 Turbo when I called him. Future repairs will not be a problem money wise, just the initial purchase price.

It will just be a 4000 mile a year car, kept looking good at all times when it comes.

Thanks, David.