Advice Please on 964 purchase

da_gleadless · Nov 9, 2009

Hi Guys,

I've been wanting a 964 since I was a wee lad[8|] and its time to get rid of my diesel car. Ive been slowly doing research on 911's including runnning costs and servicing etc.

Anyhow I've found this little gem, perfect colour, fsh and a large amount of work recently done.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1239178.htm

I'd like your thoughts on and some advice on the car itself. It seems a top end rebuild will be due around its current mileage, but dont know if its been done recently.

I'm going to view the car tonight so any advice would be greatly appreciated[

]

Dave Wilkinson · Nov 9, 2009

Chris,

One little bit of information you left out of your post was what your intended use of the car was/is going to be. The reson it's important is that a casual weekend fun car can survive a lot of potential problems better than a daily driver. Similarly, an annual use of, say 3000 miles will likely present fewer issues than a car subjected to 15000 mile per year.

From the advert it looks like a lot of work has been done recently but I'd be surprised if a top end rebuild had (a) been done and (b) was necessary at this mileage. Don't get over concerned about top end rebuilds. Many are done for no better reason than some garage thinks it's a good idea. My own car was diagnosed as needing one some 6 years ago - and I'm still thinking about it!!

One thought that DOES come to mind is to buy a Targa with your eyes open!! They are renown for leaking around the roof and whilst they do give you the option of open air motoring when the weather is fine the option of an impromptu shampoo when it's raining might not be as welcome!!! The Coupes don't justify a premium for no reason!!

The advert seems to suggest that there's no rust on the car (which is good) but it would be useful to establish what level of oil leaks there are. Although some will tell you that their 964 is leak free I can assure you that there aren't THAT many that truly are. However, the odd little drip is no big deal - and is often considered "part of the charm" - and is certainly no justification for a rebuild of any sort. There are a number of little items worth checking out, such as whether the distributor vent kit has been fitted, are the carpets wet (suggesting roof leaking), has the suspension been changed/updated (shock absorbers pushing 20 years old are never THAT good) and rear springs often sag with age giving the car a distinct "nose up" attitude which will give rise to high speed instability.

I could go on but the first impression has got to be how it drives - check for smoke from the exhaust after a drive (on start-up it's no big deal) and make sure it idles solidly around 850rpm. Fluctuating or faltering idle suggests a current or past problem with oil level. After a decent 15-minute minimum drive check that the oil level gauge rests somewhere between midway and full once the engine has idled for a minute or two. If the level gauge is pegged to the top (either during the drive or at idle) don't accept any daft "I topped it up yesterday" excuses.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Dave

da_gleadless · Nov 9, 2009

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

The car will be a daily driver, but shouldnt really surpass 8000 miles per annum.

Thankfully its been raining quite alot (not sure its normally a good thing), so unless this car has been kept inside, the targa should hopefully show its true colours.

The car has been lowered recently, so one might expect any suspension problems should have resolved at the same time?

I've just been reading some earleir posts on engine rebuilds and their true necessity, so hopefully as long as the previous work has been done properly, its unlikey to need one for a while as it will be going nowhere near a track until ive gotten to know the car fully.

The dealer seems to sell a fair amount of cars through pistonheads and I've done a search to find any comments to no avail.

The car has a decent history it seems so im going to spend some time trauling through receipts etc, whilst the car has had oil pipe replacements which should take care of any major oil leaks (unless theyre coming from the engine), but the checks you suggested will help a great deal.

Thanks again... I'm truly excited about this car

Steve Brookes · Nov 9, 2009

From the pics it looks like a nice car but on the same lines as Dave, I would not have a targa unless I had a garage to keep it in overnight. You can guess from this, I don't have a garage....do you?

da_gleadless · Nov 9, 2009

I have a driveway, but unfortunately no garage [

]

Dave Wilkinson · Nov 9, 2009

Chris,

Although I'm sure it's not a deal breaker, it's worth being aware that the Targa roof, if needing replacement at any time is a cool £10,000 (+ VAT) new from Porsche currently!!!! I appreciate that the roof can be recovered (Southbound are good) and secondhand ones do come up from time to time but I have seen mention of them being stolen (not surprising really) and even damaged beyond repair (driven off without being latched).

Good luck with the search anyway.

Regards

Dave

da_gleadless · Nov 9, 2009

Thanks for the advice

Its certainly food for thought, but a leaky car is certainly not what im looking for. Im kinda hoping for rain today so I may check!

I think the best i can do is give the car a good once over paying special attention to the roof, but to be honest I am quite worried about it. If I'm unsure then the sensible thing to do is just keep looking and researching (and quite possible save a few quid fopr a coupe), I will keep you guys posted

tim_haskins · Nov 9, 2009

Chris,

I have a targa and mine does not leak at all....I wouldnt be put off from buying a targa as its really nice in the summer when most of the other coupe owners are sweating as most have air con issues!....lol

Anyhow I still would buy totally on condition before anything else. I personally would not leave my targa on the drive but I am lucky enough to have a garage to put it in. (I could not bear it if something happened to it)

With regards to engine oil leaks it really depends where the leak is comming from, most can be fixed quite easily but others ie through bolt seals require alot more effort (ie heads need to be removed). Generally most people live with a few leaks until they have a rebuild and even then i have heard of engines still leaking!. Mine is one of the rare 100% leak free engines but I have had to change a few items to get to this level. The engine on the one you are looking at has the alloy intake manifolds and generally this is a sign of the older design barrel/head sealing. Mine is the later type plastic manifolds with the later type sealing rings. Engine tin is also worth looking at...myself and steve have changed bits of ours and its very expensive to buy and a PITA to fit!.

Targa roof condition is important i recently bought new headliner for mine as the old one was beginning to sag slightly. Porsche wanted 3-400 pounds for the headliner only! I ended up with one from fvd but it was still pricey.

I agree with dave that suspension etc is important to have been changed along with wishbone bushes. I recently changed all mine and it was not cheap. Brakes are another issue as they suffer from caliper plate lift and seized bleed nipples...i would look in the history for caliper rebuilt/repaired.Discs/pads are quite cheap. I just fitted the front turbo calipers with 993 rears to mine and my old ones were in not bad shape but do have signs of the plate lift.

Most of all unless you know what your looking for get a proper inspection done on it otherwise it could cost £££ to fix properly. I didnt when I bought mine but I did spend alot of time reseraching and knew what i needed to look for. I am also able to fix most of it myself.

I hope never to sale my targa and am 100% pleased with it. I have had it for 8-9 years and its been a pleasure to own and drive. I have never had anything major go wrong with it even though over the years its cost me a fortune. This is because I choose to replace/upgrade things and not due to breakdown.

good luck with the viewing.

Tim

tim_haskins · Nov 9, 2009

I also noticed on the ad it says new 40mm lower spings fitted..nothing about shocks. I would defo check the history to find out what has/hasnt been done.

not sure if i like the black cup wheels either

Tim

iangray100 · Nov 9, 2009

The last time I looked at buying a Targa the carpets behind the sets were soaking and under the carpet was rusted !!! Like Steve, water tight was key as I have no room to put my car in the garage . it ne honest i spend ages tracing leaks on my coupe to make it water tight ;-)

On the engine picture the fan and its housing looks pretty weathered and tarnished to me so its seen rain .....and no rust comment ..its been resprayed ...at 19years old they have some rust in hiden palces ..your just need to find it ...check the rear bumper brackets they rust in the sun and they are not at all cheap ....did all mine front and rear last year !!!

tim_haskins · Nov 9, 2009

I know what you mean Ian....I looked at a few targas that had the same damp/wet carpets. Mine has had a fair amount of work carried out on the targa prior to me purchasing it (new seals,catches etc) and genuinely doesnt leak. The only thing I would say is that wind noise is greater than in a coupe. My Driver side window needed adjusting to stop some of it but it still creates some noise over 70 mph. If I am honest I would have prefered the coupe when I bought mine mainly down to me prefering the body lines. In saying this i am still 100% happy with my targa and I am glad i have it. I bought on condtion and mine is one of the nicer ones about and this has been agreed with by a number of indies. If I had my choice again then I would probably still prefer the coupe but there is no way i would dismiss a targa. I wouldnt sell mine now and the only way of me getting a coupe would be to buy another!!! mmmmmm theres a thought!

Tim

da_gleadless · Nov 10, 2009

Hi guys,

I checked all the areas you suggested and as many others i could think of and it all came through brilliantly (or so it would seem)... the targa itself was excellent, so much so i couldnt hear any wind noise!

As far as i can tell (and receipts prove) its in excellent condition and drove like a dream... I pick it up at the weekend

There was one fault with the doors not locking properly at one side, but this will be fixed by the time i pick it up

now for insurance...

any suggestions (im currently looking within the forum for specialist insurers, but the cheapest on confused was admiral at £1500)?

appletonn · Nov 10, 2009

ORIGINAL: da_gleadless

Hi guys,

I checked all the areas you suggested and as many others i could think of and it all came through brilliantly (or so it would seem)... the targa itself was excellent, so much so i couldnt hear any wind noise!

As far as i can tell (and receipts prove) its in excellent condition and drove like a dream... I pick it up at the weekend

There was one fault with the doors not locking properly at one side, but this will be fixed by the time i pick it up

now for insurance...

any suggestions (im currently looking within the forum for specialist insurers, but the cheapest on confused was admiral at £1500)?

Congratulations - try Haggerty for insurance, I'm about to move from AON to them and it is £280pa for a 5000pa limited mileage policy with agreed value too.

Steve Brookes · Nov 10, 2009

I agree that Hagerty are great and I use them myself but they won't insure it unless you have another car for daily use. Don't bother with confused.com type of searches because they are useless with Porsches. Go to a specialist broker...all the good ones advertise in the club magazine (Porsche Post). For a daily driver Performance Marque are quite good and you'll get free PCGB membership from them for the first year.

p.s. Glad to hear the car came up to expectations [

]

colin129 · Nov 10, 2009

Funnily enough I got quite a good quote off Confused.com, so its worth a look even if its only for comparison purposes

Steve Brookes · Nov 10, 2009

ORIGINAL: colin129

Funnily enough I got quite a good quote off Confused.com, so its worth a look even if its only for comparison purposes

Sorry Colin, what I meant is that when I followed up some of the better prices that came up, the policies were not up to a good standard (e.g. no choice of own repairer) or the price was conditional on having a tracker fitted. None would give a guaranteed value. There are many stories of people owning 964s (or similar), having a crash and then only being offered about £7,000 for a car that we all know has a completely different market value to the one that run of the mill insurance companies have in their tables. For me, our cars are too precious to run them on the cheapest policy we find in case they prove to be useless come claim time. This is where the specialist brokers earn their crust for us.

However, I agree that finding a few prices off the net can be very useful for bargaining...I've managed to get a broker to come back with a better price more than once [

]

da_gleadless · Nov 11, 2009

Hi guys,

Ive phoned all the people suggested (and then some) and no one comes close to admiral insurance.

Its worth mentioning that im only 28 with 1 years no claims (i did have four years before i went away to university and stopped driving, but the insurance relinquished them).

Anyhow i gather with the amount of joy I will be getting, it will be worth it, and in comparison to my 1.2 renault clio at the age of 17 with a cost of £1200, it does'nt seem too bad [

].

Roll on saturday...

deutschland dobson · Nov 11, 2009

Thats probs not too bad a quote then

I pay close to £600 and im 31 with fully protected no claims. All mods are fully declared though. If I gave up the no claims and insured on a classic policy it would be cheaper, but if I ever loose the company car...

Good on you for attaining a 911 at 28 BTW!

Chris

da_gleadless · Nov 11, 2009

ORIGINAL: deutschland dobson

Thats probs not too bad a quote then

I pay close to £600 and im 31 with fully protected no claims. All mods are fully declared though. If I gave up the no claims and insured on a classic policy it would be cheaper, but if I ever loose the company car...

Good on you for attaining a 911 at 28 BTW!

Chris

Hi the only Mod is the lowering by 40mm methinks and thats declared (at a cost of £29!!!).

Im soo pleased about owning a 911, though its not real until i pick it up. i do expect to have to spend some cash, but hopefully not extortionate amounts.

The insurance and fuel will come at a cost along with servicing, but the car itself is'nt too bad at £12000 considering the amount of car you get.

I've wanted a 1990's 911 (now known to me as a 964) ever since they came out and have looked longingly for years, but the time just seemed right. it was either a 911 or a golf gti (911 hands down)

I just hope I've not bitten the financial bullet too early, but I'd rather have one now before i get into houses/marriage and then I can work my life around my car as opposed to the other way round [

].

I've always loved cars....Always will!

iangray100 · Nov 12, 2009

I use Admiral and their Mutilcar policy ...964 comes in at approx £280 and i have another (in the family) 4 cars on it as well . The more you have the cheaper the cars become .

Age 45, Surrey location , Max NC, No modes, Every day car unlimited mileage