Advice required, up the creek without a paddle

[garyw]

Are we talking about the same car/friend as per the other thread? I'm shocked that the OPC are using this way of warranty renewal.... personally I'd go to another OPC and see if they are doing the same.... Not sure how you could dis-prove it as Porsche seem to hold all the balls in this case, unless a indy can read the data and tell you 'when' these took place... I've hit the limiter a few times but no idea they were looking into it this much. garyw

 

[tscaptain]

According to what I've read elsewhere all overrevs are "date stamped" so they should be able to tell whether it was you - or not.....13 category 5's seems ridiculous though in any event?

 

[marlin]

Help needed, can anyone give me advice on this issue. I presented my car for Porsche warranty. Passed the 111 point check but a print out showed the car had been over revved (down changes) whilst a press car. So the warranty company wanted checks on the oil and a compression test.

This was carried out by the dealer and the results were OK. However when picking the car up they informed me that some of the over revving into category five (there are six categories ) one and two is OK into five is bad six is total abuse.

The claim by Porsche is whilst the car has been in my ownership it has been over revved on 13 occasions into category five, which I understand is changing down so that the wheels lock up.

I bought this car as a lifer ( I am two years from retirement ) have not even revved it over four thousand revs until the oil gauge shows the oil is at operating temperature. Cleaned the fucking wheels with a toothbrush and have never tracked or abused this car in any way.

So i am sat in a OPC being told by the service manager and dealer principal I have abused the car and because of this the only warranty that could offered is under the understanding that if the car shows another reading in the category five the warranty will not be honored.

I declined the offer because I have never abused the car, I have been the only driver apart from when the dealer has had the car.

How do you prove you have not mis treated a car, by the way 40,000 miles same clutch and brake pads !

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Gary and Alan are right, go see an Indi who have the right diagnostic equipment (PIWIS or Durametric) and get them to read the overrevs. The reading will tell you how many 'firings' have happened and at what hour in the life of the engine, from that you can infer if they happened during your ownership or not. Although I've rarely if ever heard of cars going into category 5, remember 13 cylinder 'firings' at those revs - that's still just a fraction of a second. p.s I've locked up my wheels shifting down and not heel and toeing properly, but I went no-where near the redline - rev range readings are purely that.

 

[mottle]

Just to add my bit, i mentioned to my OPC about over reving as ive heard so much about it and didnt know the implications. They told me "not to worry" about it as its "impossible" to do it in a PDK car. What they did mention that i found interesting though was that when you take your car for a p/x the first thing they do is check it for over reving. If it shows once or twice they disregard the checks. Anything over that they are now being told NOT to take the car as a p/x!!! Just thought i'd share that with you all.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

ORIGINAL: mottle Just to add my bit, i mentioned to my OPC about over reving as ive heard so much about it and didnt know the implications. They told me "not to worry" about it as its "impossible" to do it in a PDK car. What they did mention that i found interesting though was that when you take your car for a p/x the first thing they do is check it for over reving. If it shows once or twice they disregard the checks. Anything over that they are now being told NOT to take the car as a p/x!!! Just thought i'd share that with you all.

Blimey. So that's rev range 1,2+? Or 5,6 etc, because that's just crazy! There has to be just a handful of cars that haven't had a good few forays into rev range 1s Good info.

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar Although I've rarely if ever heard of cars going into category 5, remember 13 cylinder 'firings' at those revs - that's still just a fraction of a second.

Not sure from the OP whether the "13" refers to firings or separate recorded occasions? At, say, 8000 rpm or 133 revs/sec there are 400 firings per second (that's scary in itself!) as 3 cylinders fire every revolution. 13 firings at that rate would take just over 3/100ths of a second. Yikes![] PS - hope the maths are right![&:]

 

[Rodney Naghar]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar Although I've rarely if ever heard of cars going into category 5, remember 13 cylinder 'firings' at those revs - that's still just a fraction of a second.

Not sure from the OP whether the "13" refers to firings or separate recorded occasions?  At, say, 8000 rpm or 133 revs/sec there are 400 firings per second (that's scary in itself!) as 3 cylinders fire every revolution.  13 firings at that rate would take just over 3/100ths of a second.  Yikes![] PS - hope the maths are right![&:]

Yup, I agree 0.0325 of a second. If he's talking about 13 different recorded occasions then that really is bad news!

 

[Black80XSA]

Even worse will be if the hour/date stamp suggests some of the overrevs are indeed during the period you owned the car, how can you prove/disprove whether they are you or the OPC service techs at fault ??

 

[Mark Elder]

As above, the next step in this has to be going to an indie who will be helpful enough to print out the engine hour data. If this indicates very early in its life I'd claim for a new engine from PGB for selling you a car they had not inspected to reasonable standards. If it does happen to be in more recent times then hopefully the indie can glean other evidence (eg engine hour at which it was in for servicing being very close to overrev hour). I suspect the individual OPC, presented with evidence of the behaviour of their staff when "testing" your car, will be quick to want to keep you happy enough that you don't go to the motoring press with an interesting story. You have to fight this one.

 

[marlin]

No its a different car this time MINE[:-] the other chaps was a Carrera 2, had loads of info since my original post and it could be the OPC has got things a*se over tit, we shall see. It looks like the warranty company are now cherry picking cars, which is OK for them but not for owners or Porsche. ps on this occasion they have got it wrong in a spectacular fashion []

 

[marlin]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar Although I've rarely if ever heard of cars going into category 5, remember 13 cylinder 'firings' at those revs - that's still just a fraction of a second.

Not sure from the OP whether the "13" refers to firings or separate recorded occasions?  At, say, 8000 rpm or 133 revs/sec there are 400 firings per second (that's scary in itself!) as 3 cylinders fire every revolution.  13 firings at that rate would take just over 3/100ths of a second.  Yikes![] PS - hope the maths are right![&:]

I am still on the learning curve on this one, the OPC seemed to think it was 13 times but in fact it was 13 firings which is much less than the blink of an eye. I have also been informed by a Specialist Porsche dealer that he would buy any car with this reading and it would have no effect on the market value of the car whatsoever. I have been working on information given to me by people,( OPC service manager and principal) who have no idea what the data means (and admit this). I have also been informed on the 996 it is possible to date and time this information but on the 997 it is not, this is important as the service manger told me it happened in the last 12 hours running I know this categorically is not true. Its a right royal mess and a absolutely awful way to treat a customer I am seriously considering my relationship with Porsche. As a Porsche owner and devotee of the brand for 30 years its a sad day indeed.

 

[Wills]

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, this whole over rev thing is starting to concern me greatly, I've hit the limiter a few times how can that be seen as an over rev? I've also locked the wheels (clutch lock) when down changing into a 2nd gear corner and messing up the rev matching heel and toe but that happened at say 50mph so well within the range of 2nd gear how could that cause an over rev? My car is going into the OPC on monday for some paint and new exhaust tips I'm going to see if they will do a DME and I'll post up the results.... I really do smell something fishy here as you state you have looked after the car, they appear to be passing the buck to you for the abuse the car took when it was in the hands of the press and owned by Porsche.... Can I ask you, are you using the OPC I suspect you are as you are based in West Yorkshire? Cheers Neil

 

[Mark Elder]

ORIGINAL: marlin .....( OPC service manager and principal) who have no idea what the data means (and admit this). .... the service manger told me it happened in the last 12 hours running I know this categorically is not true. ....

Perhaps, as they know so little, they are wrong and it is actually the first 12 hours (which would fit with it starting life as a press-car)

 

[marlin]

Its not JCT

 

[Wills]

ORIGINAL: marlin Its not JCT

Ah well hopefully not the one based in Bolton either as I've just defected to them!

 

[marlin]

My lips are sealed []