Am I mad to do this?

[ScotDoc]

Well, I finally found a cracking 997 turbo (see my last post about over-rev data). It's only got 43k miles, has NO over-revs in range 3-6(!), is meteor grey colour, manual, gen 1.5, immaculate bodywork & interior, matching N-rated tyres etc etc. It's about as perfect as I could have found. I bought it as a solid potential long-term investment for £69k, from a very, very reputable specialist Porsche dealer.

Now...I know what most of you are going to say..."don't even THINK about it"... but I would so dearly love to service this lovely car myself. I have worked on many different cars over 30 years, looked after my 993 fastidiously for 7 years before selling it in much better mechanical and cosmetic condition than I bought it for. I documented everything in forensic detail, including photographs, videos, and would do the same again. It just pains me to have to take it to a main dealer or specialist, when I can do at least as good a job myself, with a very large dose of TLC, and this has always been a very enjoyable pastime for me. I also have a scissor lift (which the car is currently up on for the winter).

I suppose this is completely out of the question if it's a long term investment, where I would at least like to get back what I paid for it, after 5-10+ years?

 

[JCX]

Well done. Mine is meteor too and it's a lovely colour.

I wouldnt buy buy a car that had been privately serviced if the car was essentially an investment. But if value didn't matter, and I trusted the file from the vendor then it wouldn't bother me.

so I think your question to answer is this: will I save the the money on servicing while I own the car only to lose the money on resale value when I sell? Or will my savings outweigh my losses?

Also, ask your vendor how it would affect their inclination to buy your car and the price they would pay?

i recently asked Tom @ 911Virgin a similar question: OPC vs. Indy; does it affect resale value and Tom was clear in his answer. Read Issue 163 of Total911 Magazine to find out

who did did you buy it from?

 

[Rodney Naghar]

I wouldn't buy a car such as yours if it was privately serviced. Changing the fuel filter, oil etc is easily documented and done.How do you prove how qualified you are to inspect the state of play of the rest of the car and to fix any issues? (Although I'm sure you are).

It also sends out a signal that you're a cost cutter (again, not that you are)

How about you get the service stamps from an Indy and you do all the other work yourself as a compromise?

 

[ScotDoc]

Thanks for your comments folks. I think you're right. I just wanted to gauge other peoples' opinions. I couldn't care less about saving money here. It's that I actually really enjoy working on these cars & appreciating how well made they are. Rodney, I think you're right. That's what I'll do - minor jobs only, but I'll have it serviced.

JCX - I actually got it from 911Virgin, a couple of weeks ago. I was very impressed by their whole set-up, and they clearly deserve their excellent reputation.

All the more time for detailing instead I suppose. Maybe I should think about it being my first concours car. Wouldn't take much to get it up to that level.

 

[riball]

Thinks: If your car comes up in 5-10 years and I was in the market for such a car, your's would def be highest on purchase list. OK, so the book's not stamped but with the detailed paperwork, photos etc I would be more than pleased about the TLC the car has had. I could always ask for a pre-purchase inspection to validate everything.
Only concern for you at the mo is if there's any warranty still attached as I'm pretty sure without authorised inspections & stamp that would void the warranty insurance policy.
With your expertise and garage full of tools and enjoyment with undertaking the work, hell, its a dream gig.
Nice one.

 

[JCX]

Good man ScotDoc. Enjoy all the tinkering and back it up with stamps from a reputable Indy.

I have spoken with Tom quite a bit over the years, never bought from them but friends have bought from them after my steer, and they are a super outfit. They know their stuff and they don't touch 'questionable' cars so a 911V car is a very safe bet.

My car was sold by them to a previous owner and when i bought it Tom gave me a huge thumbs-up which made it all the better.

If/when I sell I'll be speaking to them before i speak to any other dealer.

 

[Lancerlot]

Only concern for you at the mo is if there's any warranty still attached as I'm pretty sure without authorised inspections & stamp that would void the warranty insurance policy.

Car just needs to pass the 111 point inspection to be eligible for extended warranty.
Regards,

Clive

 

[ScotDoc]

One final question. In view of the fact that 997 service intervals are every 2 years (not every year), do you think it's reasonable to change the oil & filter myself between these intervals? I will have it serviced by an OPC or reputable Porsche specialist at the 2 year intervals as well. Again, this is not to save money, but rather, to enjoy doing something "extra" for it. Surely plenty of 997 owners must do this?

Thanks

 

[JCX]

Certainly. depending on driving style/miles etc. i highly reccommend more frequent oil changes.

 

[Blade_uk]

I supply the oil for my official 2 yearly services and change it myself including filter and 2 x sealing washers every year in between

regards

 

[ScotDoc]

Thank you for your thoughts. I am fully aware of the need to "counter-torque" the seat of one of the drain plugs as well with another spanner/wrench. I like the idea of taking the oil for the service. I'll stick with Mobil 1 0w-40, as still recommended by Porsche (won't open up that huge can of worms here regarding oil choice!).

 

[JCX]

Thank you for your thoughts. I am fully aware of the need to "counter-torque" the seat of one of the drain plugs as well with another spanner/wrench. I like the idea of taking the oil for the service. I'll stick with Mobil 1 0w-40, as still recommended by Porsche (won't open up that huge can of worms here regarding oil choice!).

Oh go on... i recently had my oil tested after removal... interesting! Especially from the PDK.

 

[ScotDoc]

Bait taken . Which oil and what did it reveal?

 

[JCX]

Bait taken . Which oil and what did it reveal?

Boom! []

I had Mobil 1 in there for just 8500 miles and while it was still in spec when tested it had lost some of its goodness.

I also changed my PDK transmission oil (not the PDK Clutch oil that was done at 6 years). That was in a poor state after 8 years and 35k miles. Porsche recommend 120k miles and 12 years between changes. My oil tester said it was high time it was changed. It had lost 30% viscosity and we now well out of spec.

So PDK people... (and manuals i guess) you are advised (by me) to change your PDK transmission oil (75W-90) at least every 6 years and 30k miles.

Full report will be published in Total 911 Magazine Issue 164.

I refilled both with Millers Oils Motorsport products - CFS 10W-50 NT+ in the engine and CRX LS 75W-90 NT+ in the transmission.

Millers claims HP gains of ~4-10% through reduced friction. I plan to dyno my car to see what that tells me now the Millers' oils are in.

 

[DrSimon]

Hi Joe,

The CFS 10W-50 NT+ sounds like a great oil for the 997.2 PDK turbo. Having spoken to someone at Opie Oil recently I understand it's towards the thinner end of the grade, but I'm wondering if it would be okay for those extra chilly mornings when the roads are salt free and I take the wrap off the car for a sneaky blast outside London. Wouldn't an 5W-50 grade be better? Do you use your car when the temperature drops close to zero? I'd hate to think my oil isn't doing the job correctly during the colder days of winter.

Also, where did the recommendation come for the transmission oil. When I was speaking to Opie Oil they said they didn't have an oil that meets the transmission spec.

Simon

 

[JCX]

Hi Simon,

i am lucky, I have a channel open with the Technical Director at Millers - the guy who is responsible for their award-winning Nand technology oils.

My research was extensive, speaking with Porsche in Zuffenhausen and in Reading and of course with Millers to make sure I used the right oils. Millers most certainly have oils for my car and they are the oils I used.

Regarding viscocity, I confess I am an amateur but I've learned a bit. The nano technology oil is a lot slippier than the ordinary oils. This means that a thicker oil, which works better at higher temps which are common in in turbo cars, will flow more freely as a slippery nano oil.

The PDK transmission part takes 2.9 litres of 75w-90 oil. If you have option 220 for PTV you will have a mechanical plate type dif and so you need the modifies 'LS' version of the millers oil. That was my case.

Opie is a good operation and they are Millers own shop fulfilment team so their advice should be good but I'll go by the words of my contact at millers, the millers nano inventor, every time.

regarding air/road temps. I tend not to drive mine when the roads are salted and it's parked in a heated garage so sub zero temps are unfamiliar. That said, a 5w-50 oils is good above -25degrees c.

 

[DrSimon]

Alas, I don't have the PTV option on my one but I'm certainly going to try the Millers when I book in for an oil change over the next few weeks. The 10W-50 should be fine in my car. The chap at Opie's recommended that for me as I'm in central London and the lower viscosity should suit town driving when cold. It's also rare that I'd drive the car below, say, 5 degrees, and by the time I'm out of the city the oil should have reached the desired temperature.

Thanks for the info, Joe. I look forward to the new edition of Total 911.

Simon

 

[JCX]

Do your pdk oil too Simon. Just get the Millers CRX 75w-90 NT+ product.

 

[DrSimon]

Yep, I'll get Kev to do that too, whilst it's up in the air. I'll be interested in the dyno report when you get yours tested.