Another new kid

[Guest]

Hello everyone, I've been with Audi for some years so I'm new to Porsche.


I'm getting real conflicting views on the whole C16 model thing.

I'm about to buy a new unregistered 997tt that is quoted as being a "C16 import".

Now, I've been told by another source that this is absolutely 100% a UK car, other than the alarm is set to a different frequency. (C98 is also a UK car but with more spec differences and therefore worth very roughly £1k less on average, any other codes should be considered non-uk spec)??

Had a call from OPC and I mentioned I had seen the above unregistered car elsewhere and he said they wouldn't entertain dealing with it. Is this a sales tactic or would I regret the purchace. (It's list price) I was under the impression that C16 was a UK car pure and simple, but it seems there might be ore to it. Perhaps a C16 'import' is one that's just not supplied by an OPC? The million dollar question I suppose - do I buy this or pay more for a used one from OPC? Alternatively there's the specialist idies Romans etc who are selling used cars well over list, are these generally OPC cars or could they be exactly what I could get brand new for 10k more?! Sorry for all the questions.

I'd be very grateful for a steer on this, I'm ready to buy.

Cheers, the details as I have seen recieved them are:

Unregistered Porsche 911 (997) Turbo Tiptronic
Basalt Black Metallic
Black Full Leather
19" Turbo
3 Spoke Multifunction Steering Wheel
Adaptive Sports Seats
Aluminium Look Package Switch Panel
C16 Import
CDc 4
Cruise Control
Door Entry Guards in Stainless Steel
Door Finish in Aluminium
Heated Front Seats
Rear Section Centre Console in Aluminium Look
SPorts Seats Backrests Painted
Delivery Mileage

£103,000

 

[Sunil]

If you're going to get a C16 import, you might as well save some money.

Check out www.autoebid.com - I've never used them but have been browsing the site for a little while.

According to the site, you will save at least £7,153 off UK list and get delivery within 3-4 months or immediately if in stock.

Has it got VTS (Porsche's Cat 5 tracker) within the C16 spec?

 

[Guest]

I will look at that, thank you. Although I'm getting the impression it could possibly cause me problems with dealers? I guess the big question is am I going to wipe out the 7k saving because it's not from OPC?

RE Tracker - not sure that was going to be my next question. Presume this is only an insurance issue though rather than a warranty/service one?

Can a Tracker Horizon for example not be added post sale? Or even VTS?

Thanks again

 

[Sunil]

A C16 spec is not going to cause a service problem with dealers. At the end of the day, they get paid for any warranty work done and will pick up the servicing as well. Since they can sell all the TTs they can get their hands on, they're not losing out on a sale.

The only thing I would be concerned about are the potential implications with respect to resale value and ability to resell an import. It would be helful if anyone who's bought an import could shed some light on these aspects.

Personally, when I was looking at the TT, I considered the import option briefly but shied away from it and placed my deposit with my OPC.

 

[Julio Geordio]

Bob - I put a post on another thread a couple of days ago re: C16. The simple answer is that every country in the world is assigned a code. The exception is the USA, where California has it's own code, so the States has two codes effectively. The UK code is C16. A C98 is not a UK spec car. It is a RHD model for some other RHD drive markets - Cyprus and Malta spring to mind, and will have subtle spec differences. If it says C16 on the Warranty and Maintenance handbook supplied with the car, it's a UK spec car. It doesn't matter by what route it gets in to the country it has been built as a UK spec car. I've imported my own cars from the continent (not Porsche admittedly) and, trust me, I did extensive research! The OPC telling you not to touch it is of course, is a competitor trying to put you off a direct rival. The same OPC won't have an issue with it when you ask them to service it. I'm not sure what other advice I can give you to reassure you other than to either find an honest car salesman, try a "google" search, or call the DVLA.

Somebody called Grant also has a great explanation on C16's posted in 2004 on this PCBG forum. Here's the link:

www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=72224

He says that a non-official C16's may be worth a little less come trade in time. Trust me, if a salesman tells you that, he's trying to line his pockets and you should go to another dealer until you find some sense.

I've done it before, not had my fingers burnt whatsoever, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again if the car and the price is right. Why pay £x more than you have to?! You may gather that I feel passionate about this issue - I am, I hate being lied to and I hate being shafted!!

Good luck.

 

[Guest]

Most kind and informative guys, thank you.

You hit the nail on the had really RE resale - yes, it may well be a grand or two less, but I'd be paying 7k less in the first place!

Also, come sale time, surely as far as a private buyer is concerned its a UK car? It's not like a 'grey' import for Japanese car?

I suppose how I see it is the C98 would be what I consider to hold the stigma of an "import", not the C16.

Not that I'm praising one way or another, I ma not take this car now anyway as there's no VTS or sunroof.

I could get one on order I suppose but thats going to be a November delivery at the earliest. Got to be summer!

Thanks again

 

[Julio Geordio]

Ok Bob, I think I'm right in saying that a grey import is (typically, maybe exclusively, I'm not sure) a RHD drive vehicle that is either not intended to be sold or marketed here in the UK, and/or not a C16 spec. An example of the former would be a Nissan Skyline GTR (for a lot of years, although I seem to remember that eventually Nissan GB started officially selling them), and examples of the latter would be a Mitsubishi Pajero (marketed as a Shogun in the UK) or a Subaru Impreza that had been specced for, and originally sold in, Japan.

A C16 vehicle is obviously specced and built for the UK market. If you or an independent dealer source and import a C16 vehicle from the continent say, and brought it to the UK, it would be termed a "parallel" import. It's a very subtle but very important difference.

 

[yan]

I did a parallel import on a BMW 5 years ago or so - UK spec. from a German dealer. The only snag I ran into was regarding the warranty, which turned out to be 2 years rather than the 3 you get when buying in the UK. Even factoring in a warranty extension cost (~£750 I think) 7K sounds like a pretty good discount. Not sure if this is relevant to your C16 import but worth checking what the warranty is and if there any extension restrictions.

re. VTS - VTS is installed by the UK dealer subject to the factory installed wiring - known as VTS preparation I think.

I don't see Sport Chrono on the spec. - this is arguably a must have counter depreciation and this could be one of relatively few TTs built without this option (extra 60bhp at touch of a button) - just a thought.

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: J
I don't see Sport Chrono on the spec. - this is arguably a must have counter depreciation and this could be one of relatively few TTs built without this option (extra 60bhp at touch of a button) - just a thought.

Well spotted, Without thinking about costs, trying to sell this car on without the sports chrono would be a nighmare...
I actually think it should be standard, but to come across one without is either a balls up by the guy who spec'd it or a misprint...

Addition 50lb torque... no mention of addition bhp []

I'd look it at in simple terms as a "grey" import, it never came through the"official" UK importer.
With Block exemption on your side it would get looked after, but be fair, you never made them any profit bringing it into the UK, so how much help would you suggest they give you ?? []
Pays your money and take your chances..
On a 100K+ car whats it worth ?
7K - possibly, 2K - I don't really think so

There are quite a few on the OPC website, might be worth seeing how many of them are imports and what reaction you get asking the OPC about them...

Either way, happy shopping

garyw

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: bobjebb

Not that I'm praising one way or another, I ma not take this car now anyway as there's no VTS or sunroof.

Sunroof can be a delete option, so not all cars will have it (although you still had to pay for it)[:'(]
VTS is fitted by the UK dealer, so wouldn't come to the UK fitted with it anyway, but the wiring should be in place if C16
Fitting tracker will supposedly void your warranty, not least help you with any electrical claims.

garyw

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: bobjebb
Cheers, the details as I have seen recieved them are:

Unregistered Porsche 911 (997) Turbo Tiptronic
Basalt Black Metallic
Black Full Leather
19" Turbo
3 Spoke Multifunction Steering Wheel
Adaptive Sports Seats
Aluminium Look Package Switch Panel
C16 Import
CDc 4
Cruise Control
Door Entry Guards in Stainless Steel
Door Finish in Aluminium
Heated Front Seats
Rear Section Centre Console in Aluminium Look
SPorts Seats Backrests Painted
Delivery Mileage

£103,000

Finally, I don't personally see this cost as a bargain.. It looks like someone else is enjoying the cost savings of the import...
Your benefit is that its quick to get ,which I can fully understand why you'd be interested.

garyw

 

[Guest]

Thanks again - and I'd missed the chrono option too, I have looked at so many online, I just assume that they all have it. Obviously a no go without.

I might give it a miss then and keep hunting via OPC. It's just that they mostly seem to be run as demos, and that niggles me slightly. Do OPC sell imports then? Oh what a minefield! Perhaps I should have taken the ignorance is bliss route!

Are there any idependents out there that just deal in UK supplied C16 cars?

Cheers

Bob

 

[robert997]

Autobahn at Coventry are exclusively C16 imports. www.autobahn.co.uk

C16 is just an emissions code, it doesn't mean UK spec as in options and trim, it means UK spec emissions.

That's why the Turbo you've found is not UK spec, ie. no Sunroof, VTS or Sport Chrono.

You pay less and you get less back. As Gary says, just make sure you're actually paying less. Remove the Sunroof, VTS and Sport Chrono from a UK price and that's £3000 off the list price already, which makes the saving nearer 4k.

Then what about insurance ? I'd check that too, some don't like parallel imports. Add another £1500 back on for a CAT5 tracker (Horizon is not CAT5), and your saving is now £2500 over a UK car.

At the end of the day, how many of us would bother with the hassle of an import for a 2% saving on a UK car ? I think it's telling none of us so far on this forum have bought one. You've made a cracking choice with the Turbo, I'd be tempted to hang on a little and get the right car not a compromise. Have you thought of a 'wanted ad' anywhere ?

 

[pwebb]

I did buy a Boxster a few years ago from AFN as it was then, in Guildford. It was a C16 import and they were happily asking (and getting) full price from it. Resale? A private sale and the buyer queried it, but paid up the going rate at the time. For sure a tt is a much bigger purchase price and the risks are effectively two or three times as much financially at resale time. I'd be more cautious now I admit.
Peter

 

[Guest]

Thanks again and for steering me in the right direction. Ruled it out!

Looking at another OPC car 900 miles Atlas/Black for the same money and a heap of extras. Sounds perfect but maybe a touch too much carbon. It has the steering wheel in carbon which I think might be overkill although I gather it was a pricey option. Anyone have any views on it? I've said I might wanted it swapped for a leather MF one.

Thanks again, most helpful

 

[garyw]

At worst an aftermarket wheel is an easy answer.. []
I'm personally not into the carbon, but your right it was an expensive option.

garyw

 

[Guest]

Got them to swap for the thicker leather one in the end, the idea of slippage was causing concern!

One more quetion if you don't mind, the car has the bumper lip vent (as per GT3) Does anyone have an opinion on this? By all accounts it was done at great expense and I'm sure it looks great, but I don't want to get swept away with all that if it may be in any way detrimental? (Resale being the only thing I can think of)

Your views appreciated!

 

[garyw]

The bumper lip vent is a very personal thing...
It would certainly make it stand out in a crowd...[]

I wouldn't personally want it fitted, but it wouldn't put me off it the rest of the car was 100%.
Only question I'd have to ask myself is was it done for cosmetic reasons or to aid cooling on heavy use trackdays ?

garyw

 

[Guest]

Thanks Gary, I'll ask the question RE trackdays, although it's only done 900 miles. Any other tell-tale signs whilst on that subject - apart from the obvious discs and pads, are there any quick and easy ways to check their condition?

Also out of interest, how would that bonnet lip aid cooling?

Cheers

 

[Sunil]

ORIGINAL: bobjebb
Also out of interest, how would that bonnet lip aid cooling?

I've seen a number of pictures of these conversions so I'm guessing that the indicators have been enclosed within the lenses on the bumper. I find the indicators ugly so I completely understand why someone would want a GT3 bumper conversion on the car. It's something I enquired about with my OPC when I was making the decision to buy one.

I think one has to be very careful about messing with the aerodynamics of a performance car like this. I don't know specifically how the GT3 bumper alters the airflow over the standard car but I would only feel comfortable if the bumper conversion was paired with the GT3 rear spoiler - unless I had something in writing from the OPC stating that it's not detrimental to the performance of the car.

The new GT3 is distinguished from lesser 911 models by a body kit honed in Porsche's Weissach wind tunnel. It includes a complex front bumper offering increased cooling for the front-mounted radiators, a prominent bi-plane spoiler, centrally mounted tailpipes and a new rear bumper designed to draw hot air away from the rear-mounted engine.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060224/FREE/60223010/1061

With respect to cooling, I think Gary was referring to the overall bumper rather than just the aesthetics of the lip. So long as the conversion is Porsche approved, I don't think the resale value should be affected. In fact, it will probably make the car more marketable - it certainly makes the car more attractive.