Anyone know how to track down the history of a car?

Guest · Nov 10, 2007

Hi,

This is my first post so apologies for the question overload..

Thinking of making my first step into Porsche ownership and purchasing a 944 S2. Went to look at one today (a 1990 S2 with 117k for £4k) that looked fantastic. I asked all the usual questions - belt, chain, tensioners, rollers, water pump, steering rack, oil seals etc have been replaced very recently and on time. The car has obviously been looked after by a very dedicated chap with considerable knowledge and skill when it came to it's maintenance. Also seems to have a good relationship with owners of many specialist Porsche garages in the area.

Problem is, one of the previous owners happens to have lost the service book and a bunch of receipts, meaning any service stamps before 1997 are missing in the replacement service book. From the condition of car, there is no way it has survived 17 years without being looked after from day one. After all, I have looked at others 944s with a fully stamped book that have looked and driven like, well, crap.

First of all, is it worth the risk buying? Would having an independant vehicle check carried out (by a Porsche specialist inspector) be sufficient reassurance?

Secondly, is it possible to trace the history of car to perhaps build up a service history without the receipts? I've been informed that if is has been around the Porsche Dealer Network I could piece together some early history, but what about if it later went to independents?

Car reg is G951 GHB (Grand Prix White) if anyone here happens to know it! Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. As would knowing if anyone is thinking of selling theirs!

Thanks!

Mark Elder · Nov 10, 2007

Hi,
I don't think you should be worrying about history before 1997. If the car has been well looked after since that date (which is the last 10 years) who cares what happened in it's early life. Providing it HPI checks OK, for a 4k car, you can't expect to get every detail. I'd be worried it if it had, say, the last 2 year missing, but not the early years.

It may be a sign that it's done a lot more miles than the clock says (not necessariliy, but it could have). Even so, with the recent history you can see if it's had stuff done to keep it in shape.

Diver944 · Nov 10, 2007

To be honest it's only the last 3 or 4 years that are really relavent and beyond that I wouldn't really worry too much about. It's nice for your own curiosity but all the major items should be attended to every 3-4 years, so as long as you have records of those then you are pretty much covered to know if the car has any current issues. After all what difference does it really make if it had a set of pads in 1992 or a new steering rack in 1995. The fact that you have invoices from it's recent history showing what was advised and hopefully attended to at a later date should be enough.

You could ring all the OPC dealers (they have no central record) and hope the car did not have a change of Registration number over the years and you may be lucky that they will confirm they have seen it, but they will probably be reluctant to let you have copies of paperwork quoting data protection etc. After that you could then try the dozens of independants. It can be done with a lot of patience and determination and I'm sure it would be personally very satisfying to track it all down

Alpine · Nov 10, 2007

You can get the history of previous owners from DVLA. A check on the Autotrader website against the number plate said it was first registered 7.2.90, has had 4 owners and the last owner change was 21.3.03.

Hope that is of use.

Well worth getting it checked over before you buy. I would take it to an independant Porsche specialist.

Guest · Nov 10, 2007

Thank you for your responses!

If I was thinking without my sensible head I would have bought the car there and then. I reasoned that a car without the paperwork that has the look and feel of one that has been properly maintained is better than one that is fully stamped up but drives like it is mechanically tired...

That said, althought the most recent 20k of miles couldn't be better documented, having no evidence of the first 90k does still make me nervous...

Can anyone suggest a decent company that would be good to carry out a potential pre-purchase inspection? The AA don't seem to want to deal with a sports marque, but the RAC do. Internet searches suggest specialist inspectors ask £350+. If I were to pay the money, I'd much rather go from a recommendation...

RSGulp · Nov 10, 2007

Would you buy a house knowing it has been decorated, renovated and well cared for in the last 3 or 5 years, but having no knowledge of what the wall paper looked like 10 years ago?

A service history really only tells you that the car had it's oil changed and various adjustments made at various intervals in it's life. What has happened for the past 3 - 5 years is what matters to you, and your post looks like it's had everything it needed.

It sounds like it's been well looked after in recent years. Follow your heart and your head, and put down that deposit. [

]

P.S. The most reputable independent Porsche inspection company is Peter Morgan.
http://www.petermorgan.org.uk/ but any reputable independent Porsche specialist could check the car out for you if you're unsure. Whereabouts are you?

Alpine · Nov 11, 2007

ORIGINAL: redordead

Thank you for your responses!

If I was thinking without my sensible head I would have bought the car there and then. I reasoned that a car without the paperwork that has the look and feel of one that has been properly maintained is better than one that is fully stamped up but drives like it is mechanically tired...

That said, althought the most recent 20k of miles couldn't be better documented, having no evidence of the first 90k does still make me nervous...

Can anyone suggest a decent company that would be good to carry out a potential pre-purchase inspection? The AA don't seem to want to deal with a sports marque, but the RAC do. Internet searches suggest specialist inspectors ask £350+. If I were to pay the money, I'd much rather go from a recommendation...

where are you based?

I would be reluctant to use the AA or RAC - you need an independant Porsche specialist who will know the 944 inside out. I got mine checked out for about £100, but it was 3 years ago.

Guest · Nov 11, 2007

Thanks again for your very informative replies.

When you have a restless night thinking about a car, you know it has got under your skin!

For those who asked, I'm based in Bristol and the car currently in Glastonbury. I believe PorscheMode is in Bristol - in fact, I gather than the car has been there on occassion.

Don't know how willing the current owner would be to drive the car there and have it inspected. Their website doesn't suggest they travel out to perform inspections (I know, I should really do this research when the companies in question are actuallly open). Anyone happen to know if they do?

Basically, if it breezes through an inspection with no major problems, then I'm going to go for it! No doubt I will be back on here to show off new pride and joy is all's well!

Diver944 · Nov 11, 2007

Forget the AA or RAC straight off. They will see so few 944's that they really cannot be any use. I have always heard good things about Peter Morgans inspections, he is well known in the industry and has written numerous books about each model in the Porsche marque. I believe he uses several people around the country so should be able to send someone out. He will certainly not be aywhere near the cheapest.

Independants that do inspections will mostly want the car taken to them for a few hours so you will have to agree that with the seller. A genuine seller with a genuine car should not have too many worries, but the specialist will obviously find something you have missed so the seller will be worried you will try and kock him down drastically. I would guess he will find a list of minor things that you can sort out over the months after ownership so don't worry about those. What you really don't want is to hear about the major expensive things:

Clutch, Waterpump, Brake and fuel Lines, Rust

John Sims · Nov 11, 2007

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Forget the AA or RAC straight off. They will see so few 944's that they really cannot be any use.....

Having gone the AA route myself I agree with Paul 100%. In my limited experience they know next to nothing specifically relevant to 944's. Granted they can (or should be able to) give you and unbiased report on the general condition of the car but there comments may not be relevant : -

"1st to 2nd change is notchy" - No s**t? That's what reviewers said when the car was new.
"There is some transmission noise" - Well there would be. But is it more than you would expect?
"It has been regularly maintained" - Great but when were the belts done and has the water pump been replaced?
"It seems to pull on uneven road surfaces" - Yes but is this because something is inherently wrong or does it just need 968 camber bushes to suit the larger wheels? And to the same degree - are there any non standard or non OE parts fitted?
"It handles well" - Yes but does it handle well or as well as you would expect a 944 to handle?
"The brakes are satisfactory" - But are they satisfactory compared to a Rover or working as they should on a 944? (Satisfactory, in comparison to a Rover, would worry me on a 944)

As you can see a general inspection is of little consequence.

peanut · Nov 11, 2007

As others say AA or RAC is a waste of time. You would be better off getting an MOT inspection.
There is a very good comprehensive buyers inspection sheet for 944 somewhere . maybe pelican or rennlist forums .If I were you I would give that to a local friendly mechanic you trust and take him along with you.

I've bought 2x 944S2 in the past 3 years for about £4k and had no problems with either. Its the luck of the draw your clutch or water pump could pack up a month after you buy the car
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_prepurchase/911_prepurchase.htm

Guest · Nov 12, 2007

Thanks again for all your advice.

The car has been booked in for an inpsection at PorscheMode in Bristol. The current owner has very kindly agreed to take the car there. I'm hoping this is a sign he is confident it won't show up any problems!

On a slightly different subject, I know that the car is questions suffers from a wobbly gearstick. After a search around the forum, it seems like it bears all the symptoms of a broken front gear linkage.

Is it only Jon Mitchell garage that sells replacements? Does buying a new stick and gaiter come with the parts to repair it? Assuming that it isn't the shift linkage on the side of the gearbox and the one under the stick, is it really a simple DIY job?

DavidL · Nov 12, 2007

redordead - I can second the recommendation of Porschemode. They serviced my S and its a happier bunny now. Plus they seemed very happy to explain and show which not all places are. There was a nice red 968 they seemed to be pulling apart when it was in for an oil service, just doing it for their own peace of mind and not charging the customer. Made me feel very comfortable.

PS Don't try and buy the Ferrari 308gt4 if its still there, it has quite a history. I was told I really didn't want it!