Autocar testing the new 991.2 GTS in Wales.
- Thread starter cymro
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AndrewCS
Active member
It seems that once again Porsche have made the GTS the pick of the 911 range (short of the GT cars and Turbos). If I was buying a "standard" 911 I would want a GTS for sure. But what about the RWS and PDCC? I have enjoyed reading this debate.
My 991 GT 3 has RWS but not PDCC as it does not need it given the way the suspension is set up. I have had a GT 3 without RWS and one with. In my opinion it is a great option to have because it makes the car turn in so much better and the car feels more nimble. The traditionalists probably don't like it because it makes the car easier to drive and a bit less like a traditional 911. In my old 911 I often had to use trail braking to get the front end to bite and turn in. The traditionalist will say that makes the car more challenging to drive fast which is true. Tyre and pad wear was certainly higher in the 997 GT 3 as there was a lot more understeer and you use the brakes more especially on track days. As RWS is an option on the GTS its your choice but of course if you tick that box you also get PDCC so whats that like?.
I have recently driven C4 911's with and without PDCC. In my view PDCC works and does exactly what it is meant to do which is restrict lateral movement in bends thereby giving you more grip and making the car more comfortable on the road. Like RWS it makes it easier to drive the car quickly and flatters you. My personal choice would be to have RWS but not PDCC as per my GT 3 but that is not possible in a GTS.
I think it is up to you to decide what you want. If you want the ultimate in performance, you like the technology and moneys not tight tick the RWS/PDCC box. If you don't tick the box you will still have a great car it just wont turn in quite so well and will have a bit more lateral roll in the corners but the differences are subtle in my view not massive. For a road focussed car I would personally tick the box.
Of course there is a flaw in my argument. Modern technology keeps making the cars easier to drive and faster and faster. At what time do we say enough? Is it when we don't need the driver at all?
My 991 GT 3 has RWS but not PDCC as it does not need it given the way the suspension is set up. I have had a GT 3 without RWS and one with. In my opinion it is a great option to have because it makes the car turn in so much better and the car feels more nimble. The traditionalists probably don't like it because it makes the car easier to drive and a bit less like a traditional 911. In my old 911 I often had to use trail braking to get the front end to bite and turn in. The traditionalist will say that makes the car more challenging to drive fast which is true. Tyre and pad wear was certainly higher in the 997 GT 3 as there was a lot more understeer and you use the brakes more especially on track days. As RWS is an option on the GTS its your choice but of course if you tick that box you also get PDCC so whats that like?.
I have recently driven C4 911's with and without PDCC. In my view PDCC works and does exactly what it is meant to do which is restrict lateral movement in bends thereby giving you more grip and making the car more comfortable on the road. Like RWS it makes it easier to drive the car quickly and flatters you. My personal choice would be to have RWS but not PDCC as per my GT 3 but that is not possible in a GTS.
I think it is up to you to decide what you want. If you want the ultimate in performance, you like the technology and moneys not tight tick the RWS/PDCC box. If you don't tick the box you will still have a great car it just wont turn in quite so well and will have a bit more lateral roll in the corners but the differences are subtle in my view not massive. For a road focussed car I would personally tick the box.
Of course there is a flaw in my argument. Modern technology keeps making the cars easier to drive and faster and faster. At what time do we say enough? Is it when we don't need the driver at all?
Gorsh
Member
bobfair said:
Thanks for your post Bob. I'm not sure how the options worked on other models, but on the new GTS you can have RWS without PDCC, but if you tick PDCC you must also have RWS. So your thought that you would have RWS and not PDCC is possible. That is where I'm at really thinking just RWS, but then the GTS press cars don't seem to have either and the testers love how they drive which is making me wonder if I should think again.
You are right wondering how many driver aids we need - for me I want the best blend of handling with decent comfort on UK roads. It's tricky to decide but given the good reports from owners I think I will still have RWS, but also option the -10 PASM (as standard on the CS models) rather than the -20 PASM.
Guys that are testing cars day in day out or guys that race a lot tend to have sensitive backsides and have a really good feel for how the car is moving around and how to control it. The average guy that buys a Porsche does not have the same level of feel or ability and seldom takes the car to its grip limits but has serious problems when they do. Whats good for the very experienced driver may not suit the less experienced but for sure these handling options really do make the car easier to drive faster by raising the available grip by keeping the car balanced. The key is getting it specified right for you to maximise your enjoyment of the car. There are lots of guys out there that think only air cooled with no electronic aids are fun.
I still have vivid memories of being driven round Spa by Mike Wilds. He was able to keep the car so much better balanced than me and was staggeringly faster. When I was driving through Eau Rouge I felt the car was on the limit but Mike was 10 - 15 MPH faster than me though there and the car felt like it had loads of grip left. At times he was using the steering, brake and the accelerator together to get the balance and grip he wanted. RWS and PDCC help you get a bit closer to the Mike Wilds of this world. I guess the alternative is natural driving talent or instruction and lots of practice.
One of the reasons I enjoy going to Finland so much is the grip levels are so low on the ice you really get to learn about understeer, oversteer, weight transfer and grip. The PDCC equipped cars are a bit harder to drift as there is less weight transfer so you have to be a bit more aggressive with them to get them past their grip limits.
The agony over the spec is part of the fun of buying a car but it can also keep you awake at night!! In my view for a driver of average ability RWS and PDCC add to the fun, comfort and safety factor on a road car but the man paying the piper has to call the tune.
I still have vivid memories of being driven round Spa by Mike Wilds. He was able to keep the car so much better balanced than me and was staggeringly faster. When I was driving through Eau Rouge I felt the car was on the limit but Mike was 10 - 15 MPH faster than me though there and the car felt like it had loads of grip left. At times he was using the steering, brake and the accelerator together to get the balance and grip he wanted. RWS and PDCC help you get a bit closer to the Mike Wilds of this world. I guess the alternative is natural driving talent or instruction and lots of practice.
One of the reasons I enjoy going to Finland so much is the grip levels are so low on the ice you really get to learn about understeer, oversteer, weight transfer and grip. The PDCC equipped cars are a bit harder to drift as there is less weight transfer so you have to be a bit more aggressive with them to get them past their grip limits.
The agony over the spec is part of the fun of buying a car but it can also keep you awake at night!! In my view for a driver of average ability RWS and PDCC add to the fun, comfort and safety factor on a road car but the man paying the piper has to call the tune.
john synnuck
New member
Great piece Bob; insightful, thoughtful and your own experiences used to confirm your views. I found it really helpful as, like Gorsh, I am still agonising over how to spec a 991.2 GTS!bobfair said:
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