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Automobile review of 981 Cayman S
- Thread starter chrisH
- Start date
Will the first of the new design be better then the best of the last? I'm sure Porsche have got it right and it will be a step forward. At least you can spec bucket seats and sports exhaust in the 981 even though the sports chassis is not. Time will tell[ORIGINAL: I think it looks fab, but I wonder how it will compare to a nicely specced Cayman R ?
My thoughts exactly, I have asked Jeff his expert opinion as I too would have thought the 911 would be worse. I put it down to the winter tyres being used for this test as he did say at speeds over 150 the instability occurred. Steve Sutcliffe in the Autocar review did say the front goes light above 150 using the same car and tyres. Did you see the rear spoiler has more angle on the Cayman? It will be interesting to see what the full road test reveals in due course.ORIGINAL: flat6 Haven't read the full article yet, but this doesn't sound right to me, even taking into account the winter tyres. "The harder you go, the more conscientious the input should be. It is surprisingly easy to overdrive the Cayman S by being a touch too slow at the wheel, not determined enough on the brakes, and too impatient with the throttle. Mistreated like this, the car will squirm and wiggle, fighting both tarmac and driver, relying on its computerized cleverness to stay on the road. The worst thing one can do in this situation is switch off PSM stability control and pretend to be on top of the game. Unlike the 911, which swings around gracefully like a power-operated precision carver, the Cayman wants to be coaxed with verve into rotating around its midriff axis. Push too hard, and you might spin. Push too little, and you might understeer out of the picture. Push too passively, and the drift may come to a premature end. The secret lies in massaging the accelerator and holding the coupe in that narrow bracket where slip and grip maintain a healthy balance." Does he just happen to prefer the drive of a 911? The Autocar reviewer had no issues with stability and found the 981C very controllable at the limit and beyond. I'm not 911 bashing but surely it's the car with a predominant weight bias at one end that takes more professional skill to extract all it's potential at the limit without getting into trouble? I read these reviews with a pinch of salt and come away doubting certain bits until I can try it out for myself and draw my own conclusions.
Chaps, I think that it's important to bear in mind that Kacher's comments apply to a car fitted with Michelin winter tyres (softer compound, more flexible sidewalls and tread blocks) which are "at their best in a relatively narrow temperature window" and, as he says, on gritted roads with an ambient temperature of 7 degC. Hardly conducive to getting the best out of an excellent chassis I would have thought. Probably best to wait for a summer road test to get the definitive opinions on this subject. However, as Kacher notes, the balance of the mid-engined car is perhaps more delicate than that of the 911 due to the lower polar moment of inertia and more even weight distribution which can make the handling possibly a little more unpredictable compared with the 911's high-rear-traction/rear-pendulum-mass biased handling (although that's debatable.!). His comments on high speed stability issues are rather puzzling though. Again the weather conditions and tyres are probably a contributing factor but it implies an aero anomaly such as a lack of front end downforce relative to that at the rear, but surely such things will have been investigated thoroughly in the wind tunnel. The general concensus amongst the motoring press has always been that Porsche have done an excellent job with the handling of the mid-engined cars and I can't believe that this reputation has been compromised with the latest generation of cars. JeffORIGINAL: chrisH PMy thoughts exactly, I have asked Jeff his expert opinion as I too would have thought the 911 would be worse. I put it down to the winter tyres being used for this test as he did say at speeds over 150 the instability occurred. Steve Sutcliffe in the Autocar review did say the front goes light above 150 using the same car and tyres. Did you see the rear spoiler has more angle on the Cayman? It will be interesting to see what the full road test reveals in due course.ORIGINAL: flat6 Haven't read the full article yet, but this doesn't sound right to me, even taking into account the winter tyres. "The harder you go, the more conscientious the input should be. It is surprisingly easy to overdrive the Cayman S by being a touch too slow at the wheel, not determined enough on the brakes, and too impatient with the throttle. Mistreated like this, the car will squirm and wiggle, fighting both tarmac and driver, relying on its computerized cleverness to stay on the road. The worst thing one can do in this situation is switch off PSM stability control and pretend to be on top of the game. Unlike the 911, which swings around gracefully like a power-operated precision carver, the Cayman wants to be coaxed with verve into rotating around its midriff axis. Push too hard, and you might spin. Push too little, and you might understeer out of the picture. Push too passively, and the drift may come to a premature end. The secret lies in massaging the accelerator and holding the coupe in that narrow bracket where slip and grip maintain a healthy balance." Does he just happen to prefer the drive of a 911? The Autocar reviewer had no issues with stability and found the 981C very controllable at the limit and beyond. I'm not 911 bashing but surely it's the car with a predominant weight bias at one end that takes more professional skill to extract all it's potential at the limit without getting into trouble? I read these reviews with a pinch of salt and come away doubting certain bits until I can try it out for myself and draw my own conclusions.
Yeah but in the autocar video, Sutcliffe puts the car into a drift and says that it's so perfectly balanced that it's easy to hold the car like that all day long (not that anyone who actually buys it wants to drift it, but it's reassuring to know that the car is so stable that if you get out of shape, you can get it back). That's what I meant by stable, as opposed to 150mph stability.ORIGINAL: MotorheadChaps, I think that it's important to bear in mind that Kacher's comments apply to a car fitted with Michelin winter tyres (softer compound, more flexible sidewalls and tread blocks) which are "at their best in a relatively narrow temperature window" and, as he says, on gritted roads with an ambient temperature of 7 degC. Hardly conducive to getting the best out of an excellent chassis I would have thought. Probably best to wait for a summer road test to get the definitive opinions on this subject. However, as Kacher notes, the balance of the mid-engined car is perhaps more delicate than that of the 911 due to the lower polar moment of inertia and more even weight distribution which can make the handling possibly a little more unpredictable compared with the 911's high-rear-traction/rear-pendulum-mass biased handling (although that's debatable.!). His comments on high speed stability issues are rather puzzling though. Again the weather conditions and tyres are probably a contributing factor but it implies an aero anomaly such as a lack of front end downforce relative to that at the rear, but surely such things will have been investigated thoroughly in the wind tunnel. The general concensus amongst the motoring press has always been that Porsche have done an excellent job with the handling of the mid-engined cars and I can't believe that this reputation has been compromised with the latest generation of cars. JeffORIGINAL: chrisH PMy thoughts exactly, I have asked Jeff his expert opinion as I too would have thought the 911 would be worse. I put it down to the winter tyres being used for this test as he did say at speeds over 150 the instability occurred. Steve Sutcliffe in the Autocar review did say the front goes light above 150 using the same car and tyres. Did you see the rear spoiler has more angle on the Cayman? It will be interesting to see what the full road test reveals in due course.ORIGINAL: flat6 Haven't read the full article yet, but this doesn't sound right to me, even taking into account the winter tyres. "The harder you go, the more conscientious the input should be. It is surprisingly easy to overdrive the Cayman S by being a touch too slow at the wheel, not determined enough on the brakes, and too impatient with the throttle. Mistreated like this, the car will squirm and wiggle, fighting both tarmac and driver, relying on its computerized cleverness to stay on the road. The worst thing one can do in this situation is switch off PSM stability control and pretend to be on top of the game. Unlike the 911, which swings around gracefully like a power-operated precision carver, the Cayman wants to be coaxed with verve into rotating around its midriff axis. Push too hard, and you might spin. Push too little, and you might understeer out of the picture. Push too passively, and the drift may come to a premature end. The secret lies in massaging the accelerator and holding the coupe in that narrow bracket where slip and grip maintain a healthy balance." Does he just happen to prefer the drive of a 911? The Autocar reviewer had no issues with stability and found the 981C very controllable at the limit and beyond. I'm not 911 bashing but surely it's the car with a predominant weight bias at one end that takes more professional skill to extract all it's potential at the limit without getting into trouble? I read these reviews with a pinch of salt and come away doubting certain bits until I can try it out for myself and draw my own conclusions.
Yes indeed Jeff, Chris Harris on Pistonheads reveals some interesting new design differences, also his views about the PDK v's Manual even though he did not drive a manual Cayman this time, he must have tried it in the Boxster. It seems the more you find out the more you see what efforts Porsche has gone to to make the 981 Cayman a unique design. ChrisORIGINAL: Motorhead Another short review here in What Car? with more pics: http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/2013-porsche-cayman-review/265285 And yet more reviews: http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews/article/8117/-/2013-Porsche-Cayman/First+drive+-+PDK+model+with+Sport+Chrono.html http://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=105&i=27122 (Some interesting technical input here from Chris Harris - BIW, springs, dampers, ARBs, tyres). Jeff
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