Balance belt whine - 944 S2

rowey200 · Jun 8, 2015

Folks,

I've recently had my water pump replaced (at a Porsche indi) along with a full belts & roller kit.

On picking up the car from the garage I noted that it was whining, but I was assured that it was quite normal and would settle down with some time/miles. I had noted that the car whined a little before the belts were changed, but nothing like it is now - sounds like I have a super charger, something is clearly not quite right. A bit of internet research seems to point at the balance belt idler being incorrectly adjusted, contacting the belt and making the whining noise I'm hearing.

I'm going to be taking the car back, but before I do I'd appreciate any advice on offer so I'm cluded up when I speak with the mechanic. This is what the balance belt idler looks like - it's spinning constantly as is contacting the belt at the bottom (should be 0.5mm?). You'll also note that there is a big gap at the top, easy 5/6mm. I've read that spinning the roller 180 degrees might solve the issue?

Any advice gratefully received, cheers in advance!

Monkeythree · Jun 8, 2015

It should not be touching the belt at the bottom and should have 0.5mm of clearance to the belt at the top.

Not surprised it's whining installed like that!

rowey200 · Jun 8, 2015

Thanks for the message - do you think the idler needs fitting the other way round (flipped 180 degrees)? I can't see how the required adjustment could be achieved any other way?

Thanks for your help

ORIGINAL: Monkeythree

It should not be touching the belt at the bottom and should have 0.5mm of clearance to the belt at the top.

Not surprised it's whining installed like that!

PSH · Jun 8, 2015

hmm that is not good and I would agree that the spacing looks wrong....I think my views are well known about the quality of the workmanship given to our cars by some indy's and indeed main dealers...Now everyone can make a mistake but what's unforgivable is once a problem has been pointed out by the customer that the work done isn't properly checked again after.
Time to find a new indy or perhaps do the job yourself, it's pretty straight forward...trust me the car will probably be better off.

Pete

Waylander · Jun 8, 2015

ORIGINAL: PSH

hmm that is not good and I would agree that the spacing looks wrong....I think my views are well known about the quality of the workmanship given to our cars by some indy's and indeed main dealers...Now everyone can make a mistake but what's unforgivable is once a problem has been pointed out by the customer that the work done isn't properly checked again after.
Time to find a new indy or perhaps do the job yourself, it's pretty straight forward...trust me the car will probably be better off.

Pete

I second that comment

robwright · Jun 8, 2015

Agree with the above and the reason it is whining is probably because the balance is too tight. It should be surprisingly loose. Looser than would normally make sense. If you are not up to speed with these engines then it is essential to use the proper tension tools.

Monkeythree · Jun 8, 2015

ORIGINAL: rowey200

Thanks for the message - do you think the idler needs fitting the other way round (flipped 180 degrees)? I can't see how the required adjustment could be achieved any other way?

Thanks for your help

ORIGINAL: Monkeythree

It should not be touching the belt at the bottom and should have 0.5mm of clearance to the belt at the top.

Not surprised it's whining installed like that!

Click to expand...

Not shown in the photograph is the balance belt tensioner pulley. My guess from the line that the balance belt is taking above the idler is that the tensioner puller is installed wrongly. With the tensioner pulley installed correctly, there should be sufficient adjustment on the idler pulley (it's slotted) to position it 0.5mm from the belt.

ETA - the balance belt tensioner pulley should be turned clockwise to tension the belt. I'm convinced from the line of your belt that it has been turned anticlockwise to tension it and that is why there is such a huge gap to the idler. You will probably find the balance belt is touching (or within a gnats nadger of) the water pump pulley too. Find a new indy.....

rowey200 · Jun 8, 2015

Thanks again for your response - I've attached a couple more pics that I think confirm your suspicions! I can see now that if the balance belt tensioner pulley was to be turned clockwise to tension the belt would take the correct line. Any further comments more than welcome.

Oh the joys - the car will be going back tomorrow!

ORIGINAL: Monkeythree

ORIGINAL: rowey200

Thanks for the message - do you think the idler needs fitting the other way round (flipped 180 degrees)? I can't see how the required adjustment could be achieved any other way?

Thanks for your help

ORIGINAL: Monkeythree

It should not be touching the belt at the bottom and should have 0.5mm of clearance to the belt at the top.

Not surprised it's whining installed like that!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Not shown in the photograph is the balance belt tensioner pulley. My guess from the line that the balance belt is taking above the idler is that the tensioner puller is installed wrongly. With the tensioner pulley installed correctly, there should be sufficient adjustment on the idler pulley (it's slotted) to position it 0.5mm from the belt.

ETA - the balance belt tensioner pulley should be turned clockwise to tension the belt. I'm convinced from the line of your belt that it has been turned anticlockwise to tension it and that is why there is such a huge gap to the idler. You will probably find the balance belt is touching (or within a gnats nadger of) the water pump pulley too. Find a new indy.....

Waylander · Jun 8, 2015

the idler is defo the wrong way round, if I remember correctly that idler should just be touching the long run of the belt to stop it flapping about, and have a gap to the bottom balance shaft the thickness of a credit card.

and the belt is ridiculously slack, so loose you think its wrong but its not

pauljmcnulty · Jun 8, 2015

Time to find a new indy or perhaps do the job yourself, it's pretty straight forward...trust me the car will probably be better off.

It is tough. For some of you it might be simple to DIY, but we aren't all as experienced. I don't have any under-cover space, I have very limited tools (not even a jack other than the one in the boot), and my arthritis means crawling under cars isn't really possible. Factor in me losing work time/money to learn to be a 944 mechanic, and going to a specialist is a no-brainer.

But, specialist or nearest garage? My nearest indie is £70 per hour plus VAT, the local guy who will tackle anything in the scruffy workshop on his farm is now £60 plus vat. It makes a lot of sense to go to the Porsche specialist who could save the odd bit of time and know where to get the right parts at those rates, doesn't it?

But, the Porsche indies are increasingly moving towards the Boxster/996 as their bread and butter cars. I fell out with the guys who'd serviced my 944s for nearly 10 years when they expanded, as the guys who were actually trained on 944s moived on to bigger things, and my car was serviced by the apprentices. Un-supervised [

]. That's still the case, as I have a member with a car that's been sitting in their workshop for three weeks with nothing being done yet. The indies seem not to want the cheaper cars in, which makes sense as they can be an open cheque-book car to work on, and that's out of many of our budget.

I don't know the answer. I've got mine booked in to the same indie as last year, with a list as long as my arm of work needed. How much is MOT-necessary I don't know, but I have to wonder at running a car costing perhaps £2K per year to be never near it's best.

Those of us with limited budgets might be better buying something cheap and fun, and throwing it away when it breaks? Garage rates are now so prohibitive that it really affects how I think about what I can afford to maintain, and whether the benefits of a 944 actually outweigh buying a cheap MX5 and treating it as scrap after a year? [&o]

colin944 · Jun 8, 2015

You just watch the attitude change as 944's go up in value. The cheep Porsche is now a Boxter or 996 not a 944 / 924 as it was 5 years ago. I do nearly all my work myself , the only things I wont do are anything that requires engineering ( skimming heads etc ) or wheel alignment. I'm also a bit lucky as I have a really good local garage who have always dealt with rarer cars , they had a 911 sc a 924 carrera gt, an AC cobra ,and a lancia delta integralle in on saturday when I put mine in to get the front wheels pointing the right way.

pauljmcnulty · Jun 8, 2015

You just watch the attitude change as 944's go up in value

Possibly.

We need to look at it from the indies' point of view, though. A well-known indie near me pulled out of servicing the front-engined 24/44/68 cars a few years ago as the rates they could get for the newer cars was higher, and the owners had no issues spending more.

They were struggling with our cars coming in with things like water leaks, odd electrical issues, things that might need hours to diagnose. They may have spent hours finding a fault and estimating the cost to fix it, but the owners were taking the cars away as the estimate was stupidly high.

Yes, that was partly because a Lux was worth perhaps £1500, and a full service with a couple of other repairs could easily be £1500. I'm not sure many of the owners of the cars will be saying it's now worth £3K, so £1500 for an annual service is good value?

We're stuck with the charges motor repairers can get away with, at least near me. Sites with planning permission are at a premium: my "cheap" guy who services my van is now competing with the nearby Jag main dealer on rates, and isn't far off the Aston dealer just up the road. [

]

sutters · Jun 8, 2015

Oh lord my car whines like hell just 300 miles since new belts! i guess it's photo time.

Waylander · Jun 8, 2015

East London Porsche charges £225 per hour plus vat

colin944 · Jun 8, 2015

Well maybe it's time we started a new thread and swapped skills. I will help anyone to work on their car. I won't do it for them but I will help and point them in the right direction. otherwise they will never learn to do it. Then all I expect in return is a return of help in some thing they can do. I'm sure if you offered one of the boys down your way a help with landscaping then they would help you with your car.We need to stick together and help each other in order to keep our cars on the road.That's why we join clubs etc. Lets face it we don't drive our cars cause they are cost effective , we drive them cause we love them.

zcacogp · Jun 9, 2015

ORIGINAL: Waylander
East London Porsche charges £225 per hour plus vat

Bu99er my best boots - that's expensive! I guess they need to pay for that fancy-dancy new showroom somehow but still! How much does a QC charge these days? Or a brain surgeon? That's almost as much as I was charged out at when I was in consultancy.

One again, McNulters is right; garage rates are, simply put, expensive. I dread to think how much my S2 would have cost me if I wasn't practical. However this is surely the lever needed to encourage people to buy a simple tool kit and try doing stuff on their own car. Paul, you may not have any covered area to work on you car in but that's not essential. Admittedly the arthritis may be a bit harder to overcome but a but of practical nouse can go a long way with a car as simple as a 944.

Oli.

jonn · Jun 9, 2015

ORIGINAL: colin944

Well maybe it's time we started a new thread and swapped skills. I will help anyone to work on their car. I won't do it for them but I will help and point them in the right direction. otherwise they will never learn to do it. Then all I expect in return is a return of help in some thing they can do. I'm sure if you offered one of the boys down your way a help with landscaping then they would help you with your car.We need to stick together and help each other in order to keep our cars on the road.That's why we join clubs etc. Lets face it we don't drive our cars cause they are cost effective , we drive them cause we love them.

I,m with Colin we should be proactive and help out others if we can and in that vain I have a large unit for my cars in Hampshire with tools air compressor welding kit etc. and hopefully a two post ramp in the very near future and would be happy to let others use these facilities at weekends

PSH · Jun 9, 2015

there's no doubt that 944 prices have increased in recent years while other newer models have dropped...you can find boxster's, 996's and Cayenne's for less money than a 944T...you can even find a 993 for about the same money as the best 944T's out there....times are a changing chaps...good news for us 944 nutters....

Pete