Belt Change

[lookingfora944]

I figured the time is almost upon me to change the cam belts, tensioner and probably water pump etc.

The car runs perfectly, but it has been 14K miles and just over 4 years since a last change and I want it to continue running perfectly for the next 4 years.

Firstly, a garage has quoted me over £350+VAT just for the labour and given me a breakdown of the cost of parts, with a waterpump alone coming in at over £350. All original Porsche parts though.

So I am weighing up my options.

Firstly, am I right in thinking that the parts from Porschspares.co.uk are not genuine Porsche parts but remakes, as the prices seem a little cheaper there. Also, I am sure I saw a link somewhere for water pumps around the £200 mark.

I would like to fit these parts myself or at least try to avoid paying for parts and the high labour costs.
If I were to buy the parts myself, would it be the full belt kit for £220 that I need
here
If I did buy the parts myself, would there be anyone here, close to London that would help me fit them, if I bought the car to them one weekend? I know its a bit of a liberty, but I really would like to learn how it works and as I don't have a garage, or even a driveway, I won't be able to learn if I just take it into a garage.

Failing that, I wonder if a garage would be put out if I turned up with all the bits and just got them to fit.

Any help much appreciated

Thanks

Mike

 

[robwright]

In my experience only dealers or more mainstream garages will refuse to fit your own parts. A lot of garages will do it but of course they won't guarantee them. Belts, tensioners and pump is a biggy for a total novice but like you said you want to learn so fair play to you []

 

[sawood12]

Firstly, does your water pump need changing? If there is no weeping or leaking and no play in the bearing then no need to change. Both specialists I used to use did not recognise ore suggest that the water pump needs to be replaced on a pro-active basis.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Firstly, does your water pump need changing? If there is no weeping or leaking and no play in the bearing then no need to change. Both specialists I used to use did not recognise ore suggest that the water pump needs to be replaced on a pro-active basis.

I've always worked on every second belt change, or if it's not evident it was done by the previous owner. We've had at least one recent failure on this forum, and there's an argument that new belts can hasten a worn pump to failing. Worth it for 8 years peace of mind IMO.

 

[lookingfora944]

Yes, there is no evidence that the water pump has ever been changed. At least it's not in any of the receipts I have. I just figured that if I am going to get it done, I may as well get it done properly. Can anyone point me to where I can get a waterpump cheaper than the £300 quoted?

 

[scam75]

Euro Car Parts. Change out of £200 for same as OEM part. Stuart

 

[Northern924]

Shame you're not up here, did my belts etc. on Sat and just been helping a club member change his water pump gasket tonight, back up ther Thurs to replace all the belts, its not as daunting as you think so long as you read everything you can and understand the pitfalls.

 

[os951]

This water pump hysteria is almost funny. I know 944's which still have factory fitted original pumps with over 200KKM's on them. If pump seems to be in OK condition no need to change it.

 

[robwright]

I am with yourself an Scott on this school of thought. In my dim and distant past garages would always tell you that you had to change the water pump when changing cambelt as the tightness of the new belt would most likely cause it to fail. Absolute hogwash IMHO and just a money making bolt on.

 

[zcacogp]

Mike, I did the belts and tensioners on my S2 recently. Twice. See here: http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=575798&mpage=1&key=belt .... and here: http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=586546&mpage=1&key=belt&#586619 If you want to DIY the job then I suggest you read those two threads, and all the various pages linked to from them. And also everything about the belts on Clarks Garage - there are about 3 or 4 procedures associated with them. I guess the waterpump debate will rumble on. I had the belts changed on my car 4 years ago, and the indie who did it looked at the waterpump and declared it to be non-original, but not showing any signs of grief therefore not worth changing. When I did the belts again at the end of last year, I looked at the waterpump and it looked fine. I had a replacement to hand, but didn't bother fitting it. And it failed about 1000 miles later - the impeller dropped off the shaft. Was this related to the belt change? I don't know. To be honest, I can't see how it could be, in which case I was just the victim of some unlucky timing. What is worth saying is that changing the belts is probably about 80% of the job of changing the waterpump, and hence it is worth doing 'while you are in there' if you are in any doubt about it. FWIW, I got my belts and tensioners from Andy Everett at Promax, and the waterpump from German eBay - a seller called 911teile ("911 parts"). I'd recommend both of them. What model of 944 do you have? (Not that it makes that much difference.) I'm in London, but can offer you no more facilities than you already have. I don't have a garage or a driveway; I do all the work on my car on the side of the road. Oli.

 

[os951]

In my dim and distant past garages would always tell you that you had to change the water pump when changing cambelt as the tightness of the new belt would most likely cause it to fail.

I have owned my 951 over 10 years. Have changed belts at least five times to new ones. Original pump with 138K miles is still there...

 

[sawood12]

Everything has a finite life, but ultimately it is all about the risk of immature failure. The Mean Time Before Failure of the pump might very well be about 200k miles or more (which means half of the pumps will go over 200k miles), but that doesn't mean you are not going to get a handful, or small percentage of premature failures. This doesn't mean you need some draconian rule that says you replace the pump at some arbitrary interval. Every 80k miles is a ridiculously short interval for something like a water pump - and in any case a water pump has a benign failure mode, so yes, it is a pain to do 80% of a timing belt change to replace, but ultimately a timing belt change is a pretty simple regular maintenance job. These days it costs less to replace the timing belt on a 944 than it does on a Ford Fiesta. The problem here is that due to forums like this you get to hear about the small % of water pumps which do fail and you don't get to hear about the overwhelming majority that go on for hundreds of thousands of miles. It gives you a skewed view of the scale of the problem - just like 996/997 engine issues, the reality is they are quite rare considering the hundreds of thousands of units manufactured.

 

[TTM]

I replaced the original water pump on the turbo at 272000km (170k miles), it was slightly leaking and the bearing was beginning to be a little bit tired. I think I remember reading in a Porsche service bulletin that the water pump slightly leaking does not justify replacement. I personally doubt water pumps made today are the same level of quality of the old original units but I haven't seen anything yet that would suggest it or its opposite.

 

[lookingfora944]

Thanks for all the advice, very helpful as always. If I forget about changing the waterpump and just get the belt kit from porscheshop I can get the garage to fit it for less. I think it's better I do it sooner without a water pump change than wait a few months when I can afford a waterpump and get it done then

 

[zcacogp]

Michael, That sounds like a difficult situation. If the belts are needing doing, then you risk failure if you leave them too long and the cost of that would be huge. BUT you are throwing money away by doing the belts, and then coming back and doing the waterpump as a separate job soon after. If you are short on the spondoolix and really do think that the waterpump needs doing then can you not buy it on a credit card and pay it back over a couple of months? I hate suggesting that you should get into debt, but the interest you'd pay would be tiny compared to the cost of re-doing the belts job. Or borrow the cost of the pump from family/friends? Or just leave the waterpump and see if it fails ... it's not a failure that causes consequential damage, if you are sensible. Hope you come to a conclusion either way. Oli.

 

[VanhireBoys]

I also have mine 10 years .. Ive doen the belts and tensioner once in '05. The car has covered about 15k miles in 5 years.. It will cost a bit but I am doing the belts/ tensioners and water pump this time... Ive heard of so many horror stories and I dont want to end up a statistic.. All the stuff will be coming from Agnews OPC in Belfast as well.... Dont take chances lads... [&:] If theres Doubt - Change it Out []