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Bilstein B6 Vs. Koni Sport

M

mike220

Member
Hey guys.

Well I know there's been a lot of suspension talk lately, but I'm about to start buying bits to refresh my recent purchase and would like some input from those who have experience.

Now I know KW V3 is the best and I SHOULD be buying that etc. etc.; so thank you to the supporters of that before we begin, but the budget just doesn't stretch that far. SO before anyone mentions it (and starts world war 3 [:D] haha) just don't lol.

OK, the discussion is as follows :

I'm trying to make a choice between the two suspension options listed in the title. They're both from different suppliers, and they're both only saying that they have experience of their own, so I'd like the opinions of those in the know / those who have experience with them on 944's.

My car is an '88 Turbo for reference. I'm also planning to do the following to accompany the new shocks :

Re-bush both anti-rollbars with Polyflex bushes
Front wishbone rear castor mount
Maybe front top mounts (Racers edge adjustable ones ?)

Just in case any of that has any bearing on the reccomendations people give.

Thanks in advance guys, I know it's been a well covered topic lately, but a search showed up little information really on the B6 shocks.

Cheers,

Mike
[&:]
 
I agree with Paul. To add to that it's normally the Bilstein Escort setup and it's supposedly very good but very hard and not adjustable.

The only other Bilstein I am familiar with is PSS or PSS9, which always gets rave reviews (PSS9 was the favoured replacement for the flawed Audi Dynamic Ride Control on the RS6 until someone tried KW, and it gets good reviews on Seat, VW and Mini forums as well). Of course PSS9 isn't B6...
 
Unfortunately it's not fancy PSS9 or the escort cup kit gents. See here :

http://www.carparts-cat.com/webkat.asp?SID=0008242521244763018004&ROOT=1

It's basically the Billy version of Koni Sports. Just wondered which to plump for. I've had Bilstein stuff in the past and was quite happy with it to be honest.

Simple choice I'm faced with really - Proven Products for Billies or K300 Perf. for Koni's [8|] ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

The rest doesn't really matter where I get it from.

Mike


ETA : You have to follow the model through on the link to get the listing, sorry - no other way of doing it
 
Cant comment on the Billies , In fact never heard of b6,s.......
The Koni,s are well established , so if its down to budget, ide go with them....

BUT,
KW,s are worth saving up for....[;)][;)][;)][:D][:D][:D]
 
I have to agree with Dave (on all counts). I'd also vote for buying from K300. I have no experience of Proven Products so don't assume anything negative related to them, but I do know K300 are excellent and will bend over backwards to help if there is a problem and offer advice if required.
 
I know Proven Products have supplied a few people with Koni's in the past, and I tried to get mine from them but they're now out of stock at the manufacturer, and there won't be another production run until after the Summer holiday period, so that may be why they're steering you down the bilstein route. K300 often have a supply in stock as they serve so many of the porsche community, which is where I got mine from in the end.
Doesn't mean the billies aren't equally good, I have no experience of them myself, but just a little more info which may help you make your mind up.
 
Also what sort of spring rate are you looking at and is this primarily for the road or do you want it set up more for the track?
http://www.paragon-products.com/Porsche_924_944_968_Suspension_Shock_Strut_Sway_Bushing_s/257.htm
 
Will be sticking with the stock springs, as I've been advised that they'll be fine for road use - which is 99% of the car's time. I need to keep the ride height as it is currently due to where I work (and the insanely large speed humps). To be honest I'm quite happy with the height and current stance of the car, so I'm not overly upset about not lowering it.

Mike
 
I can't see the link to the page which supposedly talks about them, but are you SURE that the bilstein option will fit your car?

When I looked into it for an '89 S2, the bilsteins were only designed as inserts for the earlier models of car, which had front struts with screw-on caps and separate inserts. These could be unscrewed, the inserts changed and then screwed back together.

The later cars have welded struts without seperate inserts - they are a single assembly. As I understand it, Koni are the only manufacturer that offers an insert for these (you cut the top off the strut, take the old gubbins out, put the new insert in and put a big bolt into the bottom to keep the insert there.) Had I had the option of fitting Bilstein stuff instead of Koni's, I would have done (as I really rate Bilstein stuff.)

You may have the earlier struts on your car, or you may have done more homework on the Billies, but make sure you know what you are buying before you flex the plastic.

An aside - I have used Proven Products for many years, and while they are not specialists like K300, they are very keenly priced, offer very good customer service and deliver what they say, when they say. I bought my Koni bits for the 944 there, as well as the bushes, and recommend them pretty strongly.


Oli.
 
Nice one, thanks Oli.

Yeah the link and info was taken directly from the Bilstein website, and lists the B6's for both early and late cars. I may try and speak to someone at Bilstein to confirm then . . . . . . .

Good to hear that both K300 AND Proven Products are OK to deal with, as that keeps my choices open. Had read up a little on cutting the strut tops off etc. and I should be fine with that. From what Proven have told me, it's the same to fit the Billies.

Hmm. I may break the trend of Koni's then and try the Billies for something different - I can be a guinea pig for the next guy to choose suspension [:D] haha

Mike
 
Mike,

Keep us posted ... that Bilstein claimed their shocks would fit later model cars sounds familiar to me, and I think I got excited at the prospect of fitting them.

I seem to recall that I telephoned the Porsche department at ECP (020 8956 5088) who outlined the options (Sachs-fintel or Koni, or the likes of KW/Ground Control/Ohlins/Others if the budget was bigger). They were the ones who confirmed that Koni are the only people who make insert replacements for the later-model struts (when you see the Koni inserts you'll understand that they are a little unusual in their design, and have to be in order to fit.)

However, they could have been wrong - keep us posted. If Billies are an option, I'll be interested to hear how you find them.


Oli.
 
Will do. Sounds like I need to bottom out the info and find 100% truth - then proceed. As I'm sure you know - there's plenty of people givin out duff information on subjects they know little about - especially when taking your money [:eek:] lol

I'll keep you posted how I get on. Hope to have all bits ordered by early next week at the latest.

Mike
 
... wait 'till you start asking about aftermarket progressively-wound springs. That's when you really struggle to tell the bullshitters from those who even know what a 944 is ...


Oli.

ETA: Ooooh - look! A naughty word that wasn't caught by the swear filter! That's a first on here ...
 
haha - I'll remember that one and try to get it in a post before they catch it ! [8D]

Leaving the springs alone - Don't even wanna get into THAT conversation, lol

I have found what I believe to be B6's on Europerformance :

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=2716

But oddly, the rears say they don't fit the Turbo ?

I'll let you know, as I'm ringing Bilstein in a minute . . . . . . . . Time to hear things from the horses mouth as it were !

Mike
 
Right - The man in the know (Bilstein boy) has now given a definitive answer, at last someone who know's what they're on about.

Bilstein B6's WILL fit the rears but will NOT fit the fronts unless you have bolted struts (early one's with the screw off caps). Even though their system shows them fitting cars from '85 - '91, when we went through the detail and the strut style the truth unfolded. Helpful guy though none the less.

Ah well, at least it's a straight answer. Suppose it's -1 for proven products though for their product knowledge ! haha

Here come the Koni's . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Cheapest place anyone ? (I will be buying powerflex bushes at the same time to make the order bigger)

Mike
 
I believe it is possible to buy the earlier front struts and put new Billy inserts in them, then fit 'em to the car, but it will probably work out more expensive that way.

I'd go back to Proven Products and ask for their best possible price. According to that which I put on the PH write-up of my car (http://pistonheads.com/members/showServiceHistory.asp?carId=35695), I paid £86.80p each for the front shocks and £91.79p for the rear, then about another £20 or so for the bushes for the front and rear ARB's. I know that PP were the cheapest when I shopped around - ask if they will match the prices I paid from them this time last year.


Oli.
 
... and check when they can get them for you. As per earlier post, when I tried them they couldn't get any stock until August at the earliest, and that wasn't guaranteed. They were very helpful & seemed to know their stuff, so a bit disappointing if they're giving you duff info, but if you need them in a hurry you'll probably have to try K300.
Alternatively you could get them shipped from the US, for some reason the rears are about 1/2 the price on the paragon products website whereas the fronts are roughly comparable to UK prices.
 
I know a guy in Germany who modifies later style struts with threaded collars so they can receive the Bilstein inserts. He provides all four dampers ready to fit if you send him your old front struts.
Send me an e-mail if you are interested.
 
Now that could be interesting .... and probably not too difficult if you have a small engineering workshop, either.

Any idea how much he charges? Or are such details strictly PM-only?


Oli.
 
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